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Old 04-28-2012, 02:11 PM   #1
Alldrakes
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Versamax patterns.....

Went out and patterned the Versamax 28" Waterfowl version yesterday.....All shots at 40 yards and pattern circle post scribed. All shells Federal Speed Shok 3". Some numbers are 4 shot averages and some just a couple shots.

1550fps #3 FULL choke 104-140 hits 58-78%
1550fps #3 .014 choke 90-98 hits 50-55%
1550fps #3 .009 choke 105 hits 59%

1400fps #3 FULL choke 150 hits 76%
1400fps #3 .014 choke 108 hits 55%
1400fps #3 .009 choke 115 hits 58%

1400fps #2 .014 choke 117 hits 74%
1400fps #2 .009 choke 91-110 hits 58-69 %

Overall I am not to pleased with the results. All chokes were Extended. The .009 choke is actually .017 of constriction, so between LM and M......The .014 is actually .022, so between a M and IM.......The FULL was .035 constriction. Rem marks them .004(which I didnt try) .009 and .014 but doesnt take into consideration the .008 of overbore in their barrel.

All the patterns showed clumping with the exception of one, the 74% 1400fps #2's with .014 choke. I have done a fair amount of patterning in my days and these are some of the worst results I have seen in pattern % and pattern distribution.

Maybe the Rem Pro Bore choke design and barrel just doesnt like the stiff Federal wads, or maybe the chokes are just a **** poor design. Guess I will have to get some Kents with thinner wads and see if I can get some acceptable patterns.
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2009 " No balls, no fun"- Ritchy

2010 " Ya at this point in the season I am happy sitting home, I just dont have the gumption"-Ritchy
2013 " More poor shooting, the story of my year, and I dont expect it to change"- Ritchy
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:40 PM   #2
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kills good enough for me . fork a piece of paper
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
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kills good enough for me . fork a piece of paper
Really?
At what ranges? How many shots, what was your hit percentage. I see that is a hand thrower, was your buddy standing right beside you? If so, I could break birds with a .410. Not really much of a comparison to a crossing mallard at 40 yards. Takes one pellet to break a clay. Takes 3-8 in the body to bring down a mallard.

Keep working Alldrakes. Something will work.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alldrakes View Post
Went out and patterned the Versamax 28" Waterfowl version yesterday.....All shots at 40 yards and pattern circle post scribed. All shells Federal Speed Shok 3". Some numbers are 4 shot averages and some just a couple shots.

1550fps #3 FULL choke 104-140 hits 58-78%
1550fps #3 .014 choke 90-98 hits 50-55%
1550fps #3 .009 choke 105 hits 59%

1400fps #3 FULL choke 150 hits 76%
1400fps #3 .014 choke 108 hits 55%
1400fps #3 .009 choke 115 hits 58%

1400fps #2 .014 choke 117 hits 74%
1400fps #2 .009 choke 91-110 hits 58-69 %

Overall I am not to pleased with the results. All chokes were Extended. The .009 choke is actually .017 of constriction, so between LM and M......The .014 is actually .022, so between a M and IM.......The FULL was .035 constriction. Rem marks them .004(which I didnt try) .009 and .014 but doesnt take into consideration the .008 of overbore in their barrel.

All the patterns showed clumping with the exception of one, the 74% 1400fps #2's with .014 choke. I have done a fair amount of patterning in my days and these are some of the worst results I have seen in pattern % and pattern distribution.

Maybe the Rem Pro Bore choke design and barrel just doesnt like the stiff Federal wads, or maybe the chokes are just a **** poor design. Guess I will have to get some Kents with thinner wads and see if I can get some acceptable patterns.
Can't say I'm really surprised that you have nothing positive to mention about the gun from the guy who says stuff like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alldrakes View Post
So what is so innovative about the VersaMax ? It copied Benelli's trigger housing, its rotating bolt, and gas piston design(Benelli M4), Extema's rubber inlays, etc.........Rem hasnt been able to make a decent auto since the 1100. So I guess it made sense to copy everyone elses designs. But of course add a full pound to it and then release it and have a recall within the first month. Sorry but I wouldnt spend a dime of my cash on a Remington product anymore. Way too many better options out there for equal or less money.

Shot the Maxus all last year shooting 138 ducks 20+ geese and 100+ doves in temps down to 5 degree's..........They are great guns !!
me understand why you sold the benelli you loved so much, switched to the maxus (which you praised), and are now shooting a versamax with "way too many better options out there for equal or less money"? Seems to me you have a grudge you'd like to exact against Remington... either that or you've got unrealistic expectations about shotguns.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:49 PM   #5
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Tomorrow, will dig out the patterns shot (last summer) with the VersaMax.

The Factory (flush mount) FULL (steel/lead) tube produced some remarkable patterns with a variety of loads.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:24 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by TEAMGTG View Post
Can't say I'm really surprised that you have nothing positive to mention about the gun from the guy who says stuff like this:



me understand why you sold the benelli you loved so much, switched to the maxus (which you praised), and are now shooting a versamax with "way too many better options out there for equal or less money"? Seems to me you have a grudge you'd like to exact against Remington... either that or you've got unrealistic expectations about shotguns.
The Benelli as reliable as it was was just too much recoil for an ailing shoulder.....The Maxus was a great gun until the gas piston spring broke after just 1200 rounds. When I asked Browning about it the head customer service guy said, I have been doing this 35 years, any guns will break, that new spring could last 20 years or break in 10 shells. After that confidence builder I sold the gun. Looked at SX3's, but after seeing 3 of them this last year in the marsh jam and finding out they use the EXACT same spring as the Maxus I looked for other options. Beretta, nope no safety upfront for me. Mossberg, you couldnt give me one, Franchi, recoil operated again........So I rolled the dice on the Versamax after seeing many glowing reviews. My first gun shot 10 inches low at 15 yards and Rem replaced it......,

As for expectations, I would hope a gun designated "waterfowl edition" could throw better patterns than the mid 50% range.......With slow 1400fps 50% type numbers are horrible !! Look below those are the numbers from the Maxus. My M1 always printed mid 60 to mid 70% patterns as well.

Browning Maxus 3" 26" barrel Federal Speed Shok 3" shells

#3 1550fps Carlsons Ext Mod 115-120 for 65- 67%
#3 1550fps Carlsons Ext Full 111-125 hits 62-70%
#3 1550fps Factory Modified 128 hits both shots 72%
#2 1550fps Briley Ext IM 89-95 hits for 63-67% a pretty holey pattern.
#3 1550fps Briley Ext IM 120-122 hits for 68-69%.

#2 1550fps Carlsons Ext Mod 108-123 for 77-87%
#2 1550fps Carlson Ext Full 98-112 hits 70-79%
#2 1550fps Factory Modified 110-113 for 78-80%
#2 1550fps Factory Full 108-120 hits 77-85%

#2 1400fps Carlson Ext Mod 136-138 for 87-88%
#2 1400fps Factory Modified 99-110 for 63-70%

#3 1400fps Carlsons Ext Mod 137-152 for 70-77%
#3 1400fps Factory Modified 143-150 for 73-76%
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2006 " Ya I cant go Sunday, my wife has us signed up to watch the nursery at church !!!"-Gunds
2008 " What she dont know wont hurt her, she wont know the difference, they are both black guns"-Gunds
2009 " No balls, no fun"- Ritchy

2010 " Ya at this point in the season I am happy sitting home, I just dont have the gumption"-Ritchy
2013 " More poor shooting, the story of my year, and I dont expect it to change"- Ritchy

Last edited by Alldrakes; 04-29-2012 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alldrakes View Post
Went out and patterned the Versamax 28" Waterfowl version yesterday.....All shots at 40 yards and pattern circle post scribed. All shells Federal Speed Shok 3". Some numbers are 4 shot averages and some just a couple shots.

1550fps #3 FULL choke 104-140 hits 58-78%
1550fps #3 .014 choke 90-98 hits 50-55%
1550fps #3 .009 choke 105 hits 59%

1400fps #3 FULL choke 150 hits 76%
1400fps #3 .014 choke 108 hits 55%
1400fps #3 .009 choke 115 hits 58%

1400fps #2 .014 choke 117 hits 74%
1400fps #2 .009 choke 91-110 hits 58-69 %

Overall I am not to pleased with the results. All chokes were Extended. The .009 choke is actually .017 of constriction, so between LM and M......The .014 is actually .022, so between a M and IM.......The FULL was .035 constriction. Rem marks them .004(which I didnt try) .009 and .014 but doesnt take into consideration the .008 of overbore in their barrel.

All the patterns showed clumping with the exception of one, the 74% 1400fps #2's with .014 choke. I have done a fair amount of patterning in my days and these are some of the worst results I have seen in pattern % and pattern distribution.

Maybe the Rem Pro Bore choke design and barrel just doesnt like the stiff Federal wads, or maybe the chokes are just a **** poor design. Guess I will have to get some Kents with thinner wads and see if I can get some acceptable patterns.
That much variation in your full choke patterns suggests a couple of things as possible explanations ....... full choke being too tight for the shells you're shooting ..... stiff wads not opening up and releasing the shot consistently.

Do you have the ability to post pictures of your patterns and wads? Often, if a choke is too tight for a particular load, it will display a certain type of pattern - low pattern percentage, center dense, but ragged outside that center 10-15 inches. If the wads are not opening properly, the patterns will be out of round and low percentage. Often the wads will have petals, where 2 or 3 are bent back, with one straight ahead .... suggesting wad tumbling. Examining the wads which produce the bad patterns can sometimes tell the tale. But, you have to insure you pick up each wad as it is fired so you can keep the wads which produce the bad patterns with their pattern papers.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:46 AM   #8
Alldrakes
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I agree with your theory of the over choking.......I have found when I get variances that are that great as I did with the FULL choke that it is indeed over choked.

The biggest dissapointment was the 1550fps #3's with the .014 choke.....50-55% is pathetic !!! Heck my Maxus with flush chokes gave me 72% with that load.
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2006 " Ya I cant go Sunday, my wife has us signed up to watch the nursery at church !!!"-Gunds
2008 " What she dont know wont hurt her, she wont know the difference, they are both black guns"-Gunds
2009 " No balls, no fun"- Ritchy

2010 " Ya at this point in the season I am happy sitting home, I just dont have the gumption"-Ritchy
2013 " More poor shooting, the story of my year, and I dont expect it to change"- Ritchy
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:21 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Alldrakes View Post
I agree with your theory of the over choking.......I have found when I get variances that are that great as I did with the FULL choke that it is indeed over choked.

The biggest dissapointment was the 1550fps #3's with the .014 choke.....50-55% is pathetic !!! Heck my Maxus with flush chokes gave me 72% with that load.
after i talk to remington c.s. i ordered a .690 terror choke for the versa max. i was told the versa max full is a .675 and for me in all my other guns the .690 terror choke has been a proven winner with the 1450 f.p.s. ammos i use. i hope that hold true again. you might think about calling jeff and ask him to build you a .690 when he makes mine.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:28 AM   #10
Alldrakes
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after i talk to remington c.s. i ordered a .690 terror choke for the versa max. i was told the versa max full is a .675 and for me in all my other guns the .690 terror choke has been a proven winner with the 1450 f.p.s. ammos i use. i hope that hold true again. you might think about calling jeff and ask him to build you a .690 when he makes mine.
Gary, when I say FULL I am not talking about the Turkey choke that came with it, I mean a Extended FULL that I bought from Rem for the Pro Bore guns. It would be a .700 with the Pro Bore being .735.

I tried a .680 Terror in my Maxus was not too impressed, maybe this Rem will need that. JP had said he got excellent patterns with Kent #3's at 1560fps and the flush factory FULL, just waiting for him to weigh in with more of his results.
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2006 " Ya I cant go Sunday, my wife has us signed up to watch the nursery at church !!!"-Gunds
2008 " What she dont know wont hurt her, she wont know the difference, they are both black guns"-Gunds
2009 " No balls, no fun"- Ritchy

2010 " Ya at this point in the season I am happy sitting home, I just dont have the gumption"-Ritchy
2013 " More poor shooting, the story of my year, and I dont expect it to change"- Ritchy
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:50 AM   #11
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Gary, when I say FULL I am not talking about the Turkey choke that came with it, I mean a Extended FULL that I bought from Rem for the Pro Bore guns. It would be a .700 with the Pro Bore being .735.

I tried a .680 Terror in my Maxus was not too impressed, maybe this Rem will need that. JP had said he got excellent patterns with Kent #3's at 1560fps and the flush factory FULL, just waiting for him to weigh in with more of his results.
when i did the test for jeff on the terror .680 in my guns,i did not care for it either. it I.M.O. was just to tight like .675 was for me. since i like one all round type choke for all my waterfowl hunting the terror .690 has been great.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:44 PM   #12
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Could not find my old pattern sheets today so, I went to the club and shot a couple of patterns with what I had on hand. The last few boxes of 3" Kent FS (1 1/8 oz. #3's) apparently went back to Alabama with the nephew last January.

Shot two (2) patterns each @ 40 yards and averaged.

Versamax w/28" barrel and factory (flush mount) FULL (lead/steel) tube.

Shots were fired offhand from a kneeling position.

Temps were ~78 degrees fahrenheit with ~60% RH and SSE wind at 10MPH.

First load was 2 3/4" Kent FS in 1 1/16 oz. of #3's @1560/FPS published velocity. Payload is ~168 total pellet count.

30" circle yielded 115X (69%) and 143X (85%) in a 35" X 33" area.

Second load was 2 3/4" handload (the "old" Alliant recipe) of 1 1/8 oz. of RSI #4's in the Remington Nitro hull. This load chrony'd @1642FPS and payload has 216 total pellet count.

30" circle yielded 159X (74%) and 190X (88%) in a 35" X 43" area.

All four (4) patterns exhibited very good to excellent pellet dispersion within the 30" circle area and the outlying areas also had good kill densities in several spots.

A .681/.690 Terror tube would likely enhance these results.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alldrakes View Post
I agree with your theory of the over choking.......I have found when I get variances that are that great as I did with the FULL choke that it is indeed over choked.

The biggest dissapointment was the 1550fps #3's with the .014 choke.....50-55% is pathetic !!! Heck my Maxus with flush chokes gave me 72% with that load.
The problem with "over choking" often is that not every pattern is bad ...... perhaps 1 in 3 or 1 in 4, if it's borderline overchoked. I've not used the Probore system, but when we had 11/87's, the best steel shot patterns we got with our backbored (to .737") 11/87's was with a Hastings flush improved modified. Of course, there weren't a wide variety of aftermarket chokes to choose from at that time. And, we both had 30" barrels on our 11/87SP's. While others may dispute this, and certainly choke choice can compensate for much of the difference, we got our best fast steel patterns out of our longer barreled guns. It was never a problem getting a decent pattern out of the 30" barreled 11/87's, even before being back bored.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:41 PM   #14
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Versa max

Try some different shells. Pretty well know fact that some shells pattern better in some guns, and the next gun down the line likes a different one.
Mine has the flush tubes and does pretty good with the 3 1/2" expert 1 1/8 oz loads at 1625 fps, but the 1 3/8 oz loads at 1550 fps put more shot in the circle but have holes. The LM worked better than the full.
Hope you get it worked out.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:56 PM   #15
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Here are some patterns from various loads/chokes in no particular order. I have others, but these are the ones I have pictures of at the moment. A BoreSnake was ran through the barrel in between each shot. Have two Pure Gold chokes that should be arriving in the mail soon and will be patterning those this spring/early summer.


Over Decoy Choke, 30 yards, Remington Sportsman 3", 1 1/8oz, #4


Over Decoy Choke, 30 yards, Fed SpeedShok 2 3/4", 1 1/8oz, #2


Over Decoy Choke, 30 yards, Fed SpeedShok 2 3/4", 1 1/8oz, #4
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:05 AM   #16
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I've never understood people complaining about the safety being up front on a Beretta. I bought a Franchi 720 last year after shooting remingtons my whole life. It literally took me about 2 minutes of shooting skeet for it to become as define natured as the rear safety is. I shot ducks and doves with nothing but that 20 last year, and never missed the safety. Berettas are too good of a gun to pass on it because you don't like the safety.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:57 AM   #17
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All 3 patterns pictured above will work.

They may not win any contests, but they work.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:00 AM   #18
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All 3 patterns pictured above will work.

They may not win any contests, but they work.
True. That 2 3/4 #2's is a little sparse, but those pellets pack more punch, so, toss up, I guess. Sure shows how #4's in 2 3/4 will do fine at 30 yards.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:55 AM   #19
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Pretty much any load with an IC or Mod will work at 30 yards..........40 yards and 1550fps shells are the challenge.
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2008 " What she dont know wont hurt her, she wont know the difference, they are both black guns"-Gunds
2009 " No balls, no fun"- Ritchy

2010 " Ya at this point in the season I am happy sitting home, I just dont have the gumption"-Ritchy
2013 " More poor shooting, the story of my year, and I dont expect it to change"- Ritchy
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:25 PM   #20
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.695 (exit bore) as .045 is not exactly super tight as my Remingtons pattern extremely well with the .655 & .665 Terror tubes especially with the smaller steel pellets.

http://www.trulockchokes.com/get-cho...kes=See+Chokes
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