A senior citizen caught a burglar

Discussion in 'World News / Current Events Forum' started by joe117, Apr 6, 2008.

  1. okie drake

    okie drake Elite Refuge Member

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    This may be one of your best yet.

    My rights extend until they infringe on yours--that's not making my opinion the only thing that counts. Your rights extend until they infringe on mine. When you can show a violation of a right, I'll agree with you. When you try to say blacks gained the right to not be owned when govt gave it to them--i.e. made it legal--I'll disagree until I die.

    You don't have a right to not be offended, to "feel" safe, or to disarm others. That's not my opinion, that's fact. I don't have those either.

    Maybe what's at work here is your issue with the Creator Jefferson spoke of?

    Thus the notion that rights come from govt? Perhaps you've come to that due to elimination of the real source in your mind?

    Hmmm.....that would explain a lot.
     
  2. joe117

    joe117 Elite Refuge Member

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    You say…
    My rights extend until they infringe on yours--

    Very simply….Tell me who gets to decide when that happens?
     
  3. okie drake

    okie drake Elite Refuge Member

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    Well, our founders said that we have certain rights that came from our Creator. They called them inalienable/unalienable. Speaking about such with regards to slavery this was said:

    "The law of the Creator, which invests every human being with an inalienable title to freedom, cannot be repealed by any interior law which asserts that man is property."


    Outside of that, they also said that govts are instituted among men to SECURE those rights. Not produce or give them, but to ensure them--to make sure that laws reflect such. Govt or society's failure to do so does not change the principle.

    To that end, we as a society certainly impact such by laws and regulations that we enact, vote for, demand etc, no question about it.

    But to base a determination of rights on legality is utter nonsense. Slavery is one fine example of this.

    I don't cease to have a right to live because my city, state, or federal govt determines murder is legal. Gibberish.

    Maybe what's at work here is your issue with the Creator Jefferson spoke of?

    Thus the notion that rights come from govt? Perhaps you've come to that due to elimination of the real source in your mind?

    Hmmm.....that would explain a lot.
     
  4. joe117

    joe117 Elite Refuge Member

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    Let's try this simple one again.....

    You say…
    "My rights extend until they infringe on yours--"

    Very simply….Tell me who gets to decide when that happens?
     
  5. joe117

    joe117 Elite Refuge Member

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    Thus the notion that rights come from govt?

    I told you that I don't believe that. And I don't have to be religious in order to say that each of us was born with certain unalienable rights.
    No religion need be involved.

    And you say that your rights extend to the point where they infringe on my rights.

    And I ask you who gets to decide when your rights infringe on my rights?
     
  6. okie drake

    okie drake Elite Refuge Member

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    Well, our founders didn't say born, they said created and they said a Creator did the creating, but anyway.....

    Societies have long chosen to institute govts to enforce laws that state their thoughts on when one is infringed upon. I've never said differently. But you continue to struggle with legality vs. liberty apparently.

    Who gets to 'decide'? Well, govt's decide LEGALITY. God decided liberty. Thus again I think the root of your problem is revealed.

    As mentioned, slavery infringed upon black's rights when it was legal. Abolition only made it illegal, it did not somehow confer rights upon individuals or change who decides, it merely meant that the govt made a correct move.

    You said the laws of the land determine what rights we have.

    So, did blacks not have the right to be free before abolition, yes or no?

    What we have the right to, and what govt decides is legal are quite different. You go with what govt says regardless. That's a shame.
     
  7. okie drake

    okie drake Elite Refuge Member

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    Joe, still fishing?
     
  8. rahma

    rahma Senior Refuge Member

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    Is it still considered fishing if jo can't catch a fish?
     
  9. wigeonmeister

    wigeonmeister Elite Refuge Member

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    Prolly so. If you're actually catching fish, it's a whole new level of performance more commonly referred to as "catching fish".
     
  10. rahma

    rahma Senior Refuge Member

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    :yes :yes

    I say he was line dragging. Six to one, half a dozen to another.
     

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