Alabama state race contestants

Discussion in 'Political Action Forum' started by stevena198301, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. newduk

    newduk Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    727
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Location:
    North AL
    I am not articulate enough to debate the role of Christianity in our government. I can only read the writings of our founding fathers and draw my own conclusions as to their meaning and intent. I read "God", "Creator", "Supreme judge of the world", "Divine Povidence" etc,. as implying a Christian foundation for the laws of our nation. I could be wrong.
     
  2. eel river

    eel river Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    7,289
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Location:
    indiana
    A specific Christian denomination? The reason I ask is because based upon faith alignment, laws could be markedly different.
     
  3. eel river

    eel river Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    7,289
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Location:
    indiana
    I thought you were on a company plan. If so, the company didn't have to do all those increases. I hope they capped your annual out of pocket at a reasonable level.
     
  4. tubshooter

    tubshooter Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    1,889
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    Rights are one thing. Laws and government another. There is no mention of higher powers of any kind in the constitution. Had they believed there should have been it would have been written that way.

    When Hamilton was asked why they didn't mention god in the constitution his alleged dry reply was "we forgot". That should tell you something.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  5. Tuck31

    Tuck31 Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    3,085
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Location:
    California, unfortunately
    You cannot excise the foundation for the Bill of Rights from the Constitution. Context is everything. The founders believed these to be God given rights, and therefore inserted them in the constitution so there would be no doubt (some even said why put them in, they are so obvious!). Just because they didn't say "Hey, by the way, this bill of Rights, y'all know they're from God right?" doesn't mean that is not where the founders got them from.
     
  6. tubshooter

    tubshooter Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    1,889
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    Sorry, but I'm not sure how you can interpret the Bill of Rights as having anything to do with being bestowed by a divine god. Again there is no mention of god in them. They read more like a legal proceeding to me. Madison didn't want them included at all. Jefferson was the one who insisted on them and he was the one who cut out all references of divinity from the bible, right?

    But, I respect your opinion and I'd rather not go down this rabbit hole any further.
     
  7. Tuck31

    Tuck31 Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    3,085
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Location:
    California, unfortunately
    I understand your confusion but it is not a rabbit hole. The Bill of Rights are recognized as God given, natural, or whatever you want to call them--they are rights we are born with, and the government is prohibited from interfering with them. In that vein, they are not actually "constitutional rights", bestowed by that document, rather we are born with them and the constitution says that the government cannot violate them. Remember the 1A---Congress shall make no law......
     
  8. ALMODUX

    ALMODUX Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    16,962
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama

    LOL

    Where do 'rights' come from to begin with? What does removing any and all mention or reference to God from all government have to do with the government's authority or the constitution? There is a lot of implication in the constitution and by the founders. Do you know the difference between beliefs, law, and the word affront?

    Haven't shown it.
     
  9. stevena198301

    stevena198301 Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    8,287
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Location:
    HSV, Alabama
    Now that really would depend on who ya ask... Some would say God. Some would say the Bill of Rights. Some would say from the blood shed from our forefathers. I'm sure some would say from the flying spaghetti monster. :l
     
  10. tubshooter

    tubshooter Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    1,889
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    No confusion here. I called it a rabbit hole because they're gone and we can't ask them what they were thinking at the time. We can look at the evidence and form an unbiased conclusion.

    The Declaration did contain several references to a higher power (not a Christian god) but the Declaration was an excuse and an apology for revolution, not a basis for government.
    It is possible to see in these words an affirmation of the Founders’ religious faith, but God-given rights had less to do with theology in the summer of 1776 than they did with rebellion.
    Its intent was to separate us from the European notion of the divine right of kings and provide a list of grievances to the British king. A crucial concept. None of our laws are based on the Declaration.

    Conversely, the constitution promotes a strict religious neutrality. The theory of government underpinning the United States Constitution is popular sovereignty. It's a social contract between the government and the governed and there is no implication in it of any sovereignty of any higher power. Even your beloved 1A can be seen as more a repudiation of religion than any affirmation or allegiance to god. Madison, who was at odds with the Anglican church (a powerful political force at the time even in the colonies) did all he could to keep their influence out of the new government he was trying to create. Hence 1A.

    I'm not trying to say the authors of the constitution were not of the Christian faith but they didn't wear it on their sleeves either. The most important work they ever created makes no mention of god or divinity. They rarely wrote of their religious beliefs. They were above all else politicians and students of the enlightenment, not clergy or theologians. None them is interred in a Christian cemetery. None of their estates that survive today exhibit any religious artifacts and none of their final resting places are adorned with any religious symbols or passages. Evidence.

    All of this, IMO, make Moore's statement about our government and constitution a ridiculous and alarming fabrication based on his desire to promote his radical religious views.

    I'll include a link to some unbiased good (and short) reading in you're interested.

    https://allthingsliberty.com/2016/02/why-god-is-in-the-declaration-but-not-the-constitution/
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
    hartfish likes this.

Share This Page