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Alberta-Edmonton Area

Discussion in 'Canadian Hunters Forum' started by bigduck10, Oct 12, 2004.

  1. Paddler

    Paddler Banned

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    Wood Duck Crazy, my previous post wasn't a "shot" at legitimate resident outfitters. I think they have a hard job, and it's certainly one I would never want. I was hunting with an Alberta resident two years ago, and he asked in a local office what the requirements are to get an outfitters license. It sounded like a lot of hoops to jump through. Also, while in Canada I was approached by a local outfitter whom I have since learned has a less than stellar reputuation for abiding by game laws. My friend, an Alberta resident, had nothing good to say about the guy, tells me he is a well known poacher, etc.

    I think that like anything else, there are good, ethical outfitters as well as the not-so-good. Obviously, the place to start is the illegal US outfitters guiding up in Canada. As for your question about what would constitue illegal guiding by residents, I would say it would not only include those guiding without a license, but also those who allow clients to break any laws while being guided. Again, it seems to me that it would be a very difficult, high-pressure job if done well, legally and ethically. Those who do it properly deserve their fees and respect.
     
  2. Bear River Boomer

    Bear River Boomer Elite Refuge Member

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    It seems this debate is argued every 2 months (maybe even sooner). It breaks down eventually with feelings hurt and people swearing they will never come back only to show up in the same argument 20 threads down the line.

    If I understand both sides correctly:
    Residents argue that NR’s are coming up to Canada and 1. Illegally guide their “friends” (and some have 100 friends). 2. They overshoot their possession limits and “gift” their birds to stay under the possession limit under the surmise of a “freelancer” and 3. Brag about the numbers they killed and not savor the experience.

    NR’s argue 1. They spend so much money that if they were not allowed to hunt the local economies would suffer and become ghost towns. (I agree with the residents on this one, my $1000 a year in SK would not be missed, it’s just made up somewhere else. Canada is not a 3rd world country and has a large GNP) and 2. Well there isn’t a two unless I missed something.

    My argument has always been to enforce the already existing laws and punish the lawbreakers. Look at the map, Canada is huge and trying to police hunters/fishers effectively would be next to impossible. That is why the Crown now staffs only enough officers that can respond to reports and hopes that everyone will be honest and law abiding.

    However, after much thought, the only recourse Canada has is to ban all NR hunters (we’re talking bird hunters here). The economy will not be hurt, the residents will not have to compete and all of the birds that are not killed and “gifted” will eventually make it across the border and we can wait for them there. It’s all or nothing. Residents admit there are several illegal guides (resident) in Canada now, and will only increase if NR’s can only hunt through a guide service, and the price of a guided hunt will decrease as the competition increases. That option will not work only hurt.

    Either we all get to hunt and leave everything as it now is or ban all American bird hunters.
     
  3. Paddler

    Paddler Banned

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    I agree, Richard. I just want to be able to wander where and when I please, shoot a few birds to eat, and enjoy the people and experience. Oh, and bring back some Black Amber Ale. I don't want further restrictions, though can't blame people for trying to solve problems.

    Perhaps the best way to start is to report violators. I have raised the issue of Sean Mann guiding in Canada, but nobody commented. According to the APOS FAQ's:

    Q. What are the requirements to become a Big Game or Bird Outfitter?

    A. To become a Big Game Outfitter you must be eighteen years of age, a Canadian citizen or Landed Immigrant and held a Big Game Guide Designation for twelve calendar months. To become a Bird Outfitter you must be eighteen years of age. In both instances you would also be required to hold $5,000,000 in Public Liability Insurance and an Indemnity Bond.

    Here is Mann's web site:

    http://www.duck-goosecalls.com/huntcanada.htm

    I don't understand how he qualifies to guide or outfit in Alberta. Nothing against him personally, but an explanation would be nice.
     
  4. Rem Choke

    Rem Choke Senior Refuge Member

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    With regards to outfitters, SHOTGUN pointed out that either this year or the next, all WMU's will be bid on. He that has the most dollars will get the bid. Pretty flippin' rotten if you ask me.

    How in the name of the almighty can the average outfitter compete with some guy from say, Texas or California that has some trillionair hotshot backer that can buy off that WMU?

    So, what it boils down to is that Americans will be the outfitters for all of Alberta and Saskatchewan will be NR unless some resident guys get big US funding. In MY COUNTRY!! HELLO!!!

    Yep, no doubt about it, thank god for free trade. I knew 15 years ago that our then Prime Minister Brian Mulroney would sell us down the road with NAFTA, and incidents such as these and the bse crisis only prove this. Oh well, business is business, everything's for sale. Have at 'er boys. Rape, pilage and Plunder!!! :mad:
     
  5. Paddler

    Paddler Banned

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    It must be very frustrating to have money have the last word. It seems to me that the best outcome would be outfitters who are Alberta residents have first crack at the WMUs. I just don't see how US outfitters meet criteria for guiding in Canada. Clarification, please? Explain to me how NR's can legally guide in Canada. Rape, pillage and plunder have no place in the field. You all should call to task those who overlook illegal outfitting in your province/country.
     
  6. Rem Choke

    Rem Choke Senior Refuge Member

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    Paddler

    You are correct in that all WMU bids should be given to (IMHO) to local residents first of that province, then residents of the country, then whoever else should those other bids NOT be filled.

    Make no mistake about it, it will also hurt the small NR freelancer as well, especially if it becomes mandatory to have all NR hunters sign up with an outfitter....big bucks always have more say it would seem. Sad but true. I suppose the writing has been on the wall for some time now.
     
  7. KEN

    KEN Moderator Moderator

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    "Yep, no doubt about it, thank god for free trade. I knew 15 years ago that our then Prime Minister Brian Mulroney would sell us down the road with NAFTA,"


    Sounds famaliar...Insert President George W Bush for Mulroney.

    American farmers saying the same thing....Canadian gov't unfairly subsidizing grain and dumping in American markets.
    No lifting the ban on Canadian beef.
    Last week US Dept of Ag. puts tariff on Canadian hogs.....

    This argument will never end.
     
  8. Bear River Boomer

    Bear River Boomer Elite Refuge Member

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    Residents, Paddler makes a good point, one he has made more than once on this thread and no one has responded. You are complaining about the illegal US outfitters and guides and he has posted a website of someone who apparently is guiding illegally in your backyard. Has anyone called and turned him in or at least called to see if he has a Canada outfitting license?

    Furthermore, if your government really does open the bidding to American hunters for rights to YOUR WMU’s, then you have a problem larger than any of us, greed, pure and simple. I love coming to Canada to hunt and will continue to do so until I am legally allowed, and will continue to abide by all regulations and laws. I have freelanced and paid for a guide. Have had experiences I can only have north of the border. I am excited to bring my son who turns 12 this year up and let him experience the same things. But guys, bottom line, this is your problem that only you can fix. I will support whatever the fix, even if it means I can no longer hunt there.

    By the way, NAFTA has nothing to do with me bidding on your WMU’s.
     
  9. sjemac

    sjemac Moderator

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    Sean Mann is listed with APOS so is not outfitting illegally.

    I agree with the NR's that I would not want to see mandatory guides for anyone. The money ruins it for everyone.

    I would like to see # of days restrictions and a tag system. Preferably a days of the week restriction too. Allow NR's to hunt Mon-Thursday as freelancers, leaving the weekends for resident hunters and nonresidents accompanied by residents.
     
  10. havenhunter

    havenhunter Elite Refuge Member

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    How about mandatory guides and make it easier for locals to set up small guiding opperations to spread the wealth around abit?
     

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