Another point to ponder

Discussion in 'Gun Dog Forum' started by EvanG, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. EvanG

    EvanG Elite Refuge Member

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    Before we get sidelined with hunt tests, let's get some things cleared up about what Cheating Singles are, and what their scope and purpose is. The drill is not to keep a dog from cheating, but rather to begin teaching them how to negotiate cheating factors on water. In addition, Cheaters are a great place to begin putting Swim-by into practical use, preparing the dog for basic water blinds. More on this later.

    EvanG
     
  2. bullpinnie

    bullpinnie Elite Refuge Member

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    That is some pretty nuanced verbiage.....Now I am not sure what you mean.:scratch

    I only mentioned the hunt test because Timber Hole and I were at the same test where one of my dogs passed, but the other didn't ( terrible set up for a water blind,..short corner, and 20MPH blowing straight into my dogs face). she cheated, of course,
     
  3. Timber Hole

    Timber Hole Senior Refuge Member

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    Agreed. Even though I'm the greenest guy here I'm going to take a shot. The way I take it he is saying the drill isn't designed to teach the dog what not to do, but what it is supposed to do when it encounters specific conditions.

    Evan, please clarify that comment.
     
  4. EvanG

    EvanG Elite Refuge Member

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    And more. Cheating Singles provides you with effective tools to deal with cheating, and promotes efficient handling, whereas before your handling skills were basic. That's the value of the period of development called "Transition". Think about it. Your dog first needs strong Basics, and then to transition those basic skills toward a Fully-trained state. That's a pretty long trip for a dog. Cheating Singles are not an advanced technique, but rather are generally early transitional.

    By the way, Swim-by is the final skill set taught during Basics. It's not an advanced skill. Without Swim-by your dog isn't even basically trained. It's been accurately said many times that a dog through formal Basics is now truly ready to train.

    EvanG
     
  5. KwickLabs

    KwickLabs Elite Refuge Member

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    Actually, what working through the cheating singles "section" of transition does is that it provides a process where a retriever becomes more responsive to the interactions with his trainer. A retriever has natural tendencies (which vary individually) that will tend to create issues when negotiating retrieves. Squaring cover and/or feeling that a certain path is quicker and/or easier may often be deceiving and some are often "more easily deceived" than others.

    When thoroughly versed in the control and responsiveness developed by doing cheating singles (and many other concepts/steps in transition), a dog will become more of a "team player". Essentially, they willingly defer to routines which may be contrary to their "natural tendencies". Reliable conditioned responses done sequentially is an effective approach.

    Natural tendencies vary considerably from dog to dog which requires a trainer's understanding of the most effective way to communicate with the dog in front of them. In addition, dogs tend to have differences in their potential to learn. They don't all have the same levels of focus, control and responsiveness.

    Working a dog through the de-cheating process provides one more step in figuring out what is required to maximize the skill level of that one dog. Responsiveness is a two-way street which tends to reveal the teaching skills of a trainer. Some dogs make it look easy......others not so much. And it is not always "on the dog". :h

    edit: It should be noted that "swim-by" provides the basics for the steps required in the de-cheating process and is often an excellent indicator of how well that may progress.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  6. bullpinnie

    bullpinnie Elite Refuge Member

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    thanks for clarifying, Jim.
     

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