Bakers and Surgeons

Discussion in 'Political Action Forum' started by Tuck31, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. Tuck31

    Tuck31 Elite Refuge Member

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    If government can force a baker to bake a wedding cake celebrating a gay wedding, can they also force a devout Catholic surgeon to perform abortions?
     
  2. Luigi Daniele

    Luigi Daniele Elite Refuge Member

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    Yes. :( Good point. We need a couple of more conservative SCOTUS Justices
     
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  3. H20DAD

    H20DAD Elite Refuge Member

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    If you don’t realize we live in a socialist state that just doesn’t blatantly advertise it, I feel for you.
     
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  4. Bear

    Bear Elite Refuge Member

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    Excellent question. :tu

    I believe its been tried but not a Catholic doctor. I'll research it more later to see if I'm correct.
     
  5. KENNEDY63

    KENNEDY63 Elite Refuge Member

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    Trump to Let Health Practitioners Skip Procedures on Religious Grounds
    Administration also to roll back Obama-era requirements for providers to provide transgender care


    [​IMG]
    Pro-life demonstrators marched in Washington during the 44th annual March for Life in January, 2017. President Trump may announce what the White House calls new protections for religious rights at this year’s march, to be held on Friday. Photo: Tasos Katopodis/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
    By
    Stephanie Armour and
    Louise Radnofsky
    Updated Jan. 18, 2018 11:56 a.m. ET


    The Trump administration is planning new exemptions for health-care practitioners with moral or religious objections to performing procedures such as gender-reassignment surgery and abortions.

    The move is part of a broader White House effort to protect religious rights that critics say roll back anti-discrimination protections.

    The Department of Health and Human Services sent the proposal on Friday to the White House for review, said a person on Capitol Hill familiar with the matter. The HHS will also establish a division of “conscience and religious freedoms” within its Office for Civil Rights, agency officials said on Thursday.

    “We want to provide justice to victims of unlawful discrimination and coercion,” Roger Severino, who heads the HHS Office for Civil Rights, said in a press call Wednesday night. Nurses, he said, shouldn’t be forced to participate in abortions or abortion referrals.

    Talking about the new unit on Thursday, Mr. Severino cited the Nazis’ treatment of Jews and the U.S. civil rights movement. He said Jews were forced to violate their conscience by Nazis and noted that Martin Luther King went to jail for his moral convictions.

    “You do not not need to shed your religious identity, your moral convictions, to be part of the public square,” Mr. Severino said.

    The division will focus on enforcement, policy making, and outreach aimed at shielding health practitioners with moral or religious objections, he said, adding that the government has treated conscience claims with hostility. State and local governments, as well as health facilities, could lose federal funding if they violate conscience protections and don’t come into voluntary compliance, according to the HHS website.

    HHS this week debuted an updated website with new information and a way to file online complaints. Practitioners can file complaints online if they believe they were discriminated against because they objected to or refused to participate in procedures, training or research activities involving abortion and sterilization, for example, because they felt it went against their moral conscience.

    Mr. Trump might take the opportunity to tout the changes when he addresses the March for Life on the National Mall by satellite on Friday, the White House said. Friday’s march is this year’s version of an annual event by antiabortion activists to mark the anniversary of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision that broadly established a right to an abortion. If not Mr. Trump, acting HHS Secretary Eric Hargan may announce the new initiative on Thursday, officials said.

    Abortion-rights groups and Democrats criticized the Trump administration’s move. “For the past year, the Trump-Pence administration has been working to infringe on our freedoms and taking away the rights of people of color, LGBTQ people and women,” said Dana Singiser, vice president of public policy and government affairs at Planned Parenthood Federation of America.

    Democrats said the changes would restrict access to health care for women and people who are transgender.”

    “Any approach that would deny or delay health care to someone and jeopardize their wellbeing for ideological reasons is unacceptable,” Sen. Patty Murray (D., Wash.) said Thursday in a statement.

    The administration has already signaled it will rework a regulation, enacted by HHS under the Affordable Care Act, that prohibits discrimination in health care by all health care providers who get money from the federal government. That includes discrimination on the basis of gender identity and in some cases, sexual orientation.

    The new regulatory action is expected to say that physicians don’t have to perform abortions or provide services related to gender transitions, for example, if they assert a religious or moral objection to doing so.

    Laws already exist to shield medical personnel who don’t want to perform abortions. But antiabortion activists say those laws are inadequate to protect the nurses and other health professionals who balk at performing the procedure.

    Under President Barack Obama, HHS had sought to ensure access to medical care and coverage for gay and transgender people in particular, by limiting the ability of providers to claim religious or moral exemptions.

    The Trump administration changes have been championed by Mr. Severino, whose office oversees issues such as discrimination in health care regarding race, sex, religion and national origin.

    Mr. Severino was previously a director at the conservative Heritage Foundation, where he was a leader in the campaign against the Obama administration’s rule because of concerns that it offered few exemptions for health providers with religious objections to same-sex relationships and sex-reassignment procedures in particular.

    Mr. Trump’s administration has sought from the outset to establish new shields for health care providers as part of a broader bid to expand religious rights, which critics often see as a way to allow discrimination of other kinds.

    In May, Mr. Trump signed a sweeping executive order instructing the Justice Department to write new guidelines for how federal agencies must accommodate religious beliefs. He exhorted individual agencies to take steps when conflicts existed between religious beliefs and federal requirements.

    “It is the policy of the administration to protect and vigorously promote religious liberty," the president said at the time.

    House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy applauded the administration’s move. “We face today a time of rising religious persecution,” Mr. McCarthy said, citing a California law that requires licensed pregnancy centers to provide information about state run contraception and family planning services that provide abortions.

    The oversight of the effort could eventually be under the purview of a new leader. The Senate Finance Committee Wednesday advanced the nomination of Alex Azar to serve as the secretary of HHS by a vote of 15 to 12.

    Write to Stephanie Armour at stephanie.armour@wsj.com and Louise Radnofsky at louise.radnofsky@wsj.com

    Appeared in the January 18, 2018, print edition as 'Religious Exemption For Health Providers.'
     
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  6. pintail2222

    pintail2222 Elite Refuge Member

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    If your a devout catholic - why would you go into an area the area of medicine that performs abortions?

    And if it isn’t an surgeons specialty - how can you be forced to perform one? Regardless of religion? Just as a OB/GYN being forced to perform an appendectomy. That would happen...
     
  7. The_Duck_Master

    The_Duck_Master Elite Refuge Member

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    It is easy to image a case where if you work at a hospital or clinic it may be required to remain at the clinic or hospital or if you are a nurse or tech at said hospital or clinic it may be required. What about as an intern at that hospital? Not all doctors who perform abortions only perform abortions. That medical specialty often also helps bring life into the world. Why should a devout Catholic be required to give up that specialty because they might be required to forfeit their conscience or lose their job? Lord knows if the leftists had their way it WOULD be required that they accommodate the demand of the clinic or hospital. Bakers obviously don't have a choice in their mind.

    Also, if it isn't a problem and it would never happen then neither is clarifying that doctors and nurses can refuse.
     
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  8. Tuck31

    Tuck31 Elite Refuge Member

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    Say you are a general surgeon in more rural areas where there are no specialists in killing babies.

    Or tweak the example and make the person a surgical nurse. Does she/he have to assist?
     
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  9. pintail2222

    pintail2222 Elite Refuge Member

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    If it is not a life threatening situation for the patient - I say no. A devout Catholic surgeon should not have to to perform abortions if they don't want to.

    If it is a life life threatening situation - be it for an abortion or a normal pregnancy - be it a devout Catholic surgeon or a agnostic surgeon - they are going to do what they need to do in order to save the life of the patient.
     
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  10. widgeon

    widgeon Elite Refuge Member

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    I seriously doubt the sanity of someone demanding a surgeon perform an operation on them against their will.
    The wedding cake fiasco was just a political stunt by queer activists.

    What should have happened is they should have baked the cake. With exlax.
     
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