banning lead for doves

Discussion in 'Upland Game Forum' started by ALLSTAR 1, Aug 3, 2014.

  1. 1100 Remington Man

    1100 Remington Man Refuge Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Location:
    iowa
    I hate to tell you all this but where did lead come from other than the ground. I will continue to use it. If you want to buy into all that PC stuff have at it & shoot Steel. But leave me to be free. Good Hunting
     
  2. J.Bennett

    J.Bennett Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    5,697
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Location:
    Acampo, California
    There are several legitimate arguments for the continued use of lead, but this is not one of them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
  3. Billy Bob

    Billy Bob Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    5,096
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Location:
    Washington
    It gives them a mental edge because of added confidence in lead shot and probably makes them feel good by polluting the environment. Other than that all I can think of is that they have the mentality of "They say I can't use lead so I'm going to use it any chance I get because it must have magical powers if it's not legal." I guess I'm lucky to have enough confidence in steel shot to use it for all of my hunting.
     
  4. Squaller

    Squaller Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    18,790
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I have read a number of the journal articles and papers submitted...

    If I had turned any of them in college I would have received a failing grade. Research methods, data analysis, and conclusions all seemingly ignoring the scientific method, with a strongly biased conclusions based on improper information gathering.

    Ducks are shot over a limited area by multiple hunters on a consistent basis. Their methods of feeding make them considerably more susceptible to lead ingestion... In some areas. Our duck hunting areas have soft bottoms, and are disked on a regular basis... Even at the time lead was prohibited, biologists agreed that lead ingestion was not an issue in the grasslands.

    And remember that lead must be ingested to cause damage. Wildlife must consume the lead to be damaged. Lead pellets do not seep into the water system or contaminate the soil.

    A bird that is non-fatally wounded with lead is more likely to survive than one with steel....

    Now, maybe I have not found the correct load/choke combination, but I have experimented with steel on pigeons, dove, and quail (and of course ducks)... Steel will knock down birds, but there is absolutely no doubt from my own experience that lead is a far better option.

    I will admit, that it is possible I am incorrect, but the pseudo-science used to regulate lead is not a viable argument.

    .
     
  5. wing seeker

    wing seeker Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    502
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    The ban is coming. I am convinced of it and I truly believe that it will be sooner as opposed to later. The non-toxic loads are the wave of the future especially for public land but likely for private land as well.
     
  6. Billy Bob

    Billy Bob Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    5,096
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Location:
    Washington
    Either way, lead is still a toxic substance. I fail to understand the need to spray a toxic metal all over the environment we hunt when there are safe alternatives.
    Maybe it's just me. :scratch Lead no doubt has superior ballistics but with the steel available today I can't understand the need for using lead. I hunt everything from doves to large Canada geese with steel, if a bird falls wounded it is MY FAULT not the fault of the metal I am using for shot. I guess finding flaws in research is a way people try to justify using a toxic metal.

    Think about this. A certain substance only kills 1 of 1,000 children, would you want that substance in your home? or is it ok because it only kills 1 child in 1,000?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
    S.davis likes this.
  7. Squaller

    Squaller Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    18,790
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Thankfully we are not comparing dove to children... Or any wildlife to children.

    You are considering only one factor...

    • If/when steel is made mandatory for clay shooting, the cost will increase for shooting, and many shooters will quit. (And clay ranges are spitting out far more lead than are hunters into a far more compacted area).
    • The conversion to steel for upland and deer will put hunters off, and we will lose both revenue and support for hunting.
    • Lead is ballistically superior, and shooting upland, my cripple rate increases significantly.
    • Birds non-fatally hit with lead will often survive, where as unless the steel passes through the bird/animal, they will likely not survive.

    Yep, lead is toxic if ingested, but it does NOT seep into the ground or water supply. Lead pellets and fragments must be directly ingested, or sit against a bone to be toxic...

    So when considering conservation (of both wildlife and habitat) we must consider the financial loss from the potential loss of hunters and license sales.

    And, there is a difference between knocking a bird down and killing it dead. Excluding dove, knocking down a crippled quail or pheasant, frequently equates to a lost birds (especially when compared to ducks).

    When considering the extraneous loss of life, we must also consider the increase in cripples not recovered as compared to the amount of wildlife dying from lead ingestion... I would guess that the former would outweigh the latter.

    .
     
  8. ALLSTAR 1

    ALLSTAR 1 Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    3,510
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Location:
    BOCOMO
    and yes.. she is a bixch! I really do believe in steel shot for doves but when you bite into one in a wonderful bacon wrapped creamcheese jalapeno grilled dove breast it will crack a filling. Just back from the DDS...:mad:

    I am reassessing my priorities!
     
  9. Joe Hunter

    Joe Hunter Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    368
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    For those interested in reading the study themselves, here's a link. It's in Latest Publications in the top left corner.

    http://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/gam ... e_summary/

    Two notable quotes from the abstract.

    "Field analyses detected no difference in doves bagged per shot, wounded per shot, bagged per hit, or wounded per hit among the 3 ammunition types."

    "Our results demonstrate that when the ammunition type used provides sufficient lethality for pellets to penetrate vital organs, pattern density becomes the primary factor influencing ammunition performance."

    Good luck.
     
    icebreaker12 likes this.
  10. wildernessninja

    wildernessninja Refuge Member

    Messages:
    96
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2015
    Location:
    wisconsin
    I shoot all nontoxic from duck,upland,to deer.I'll shoot lead on the clay range. You can only use steel for doves here unless on private land.even some state land is steel only. I shot two pheasent this week with steel #2 birds were not tore up from the shot. Compared to the price of some lead pheasent loads the steel shot was cheaper.not much of a dove hunter ,but have taken smalls birds with big steel shot and ate them. Think the big thing for me was seeing a bald eagle suffer from lead poisoning from eatting a deer gut pile on TV. I do image like said if everything goes nontoxic price of everything will go up and revenue will go down.right now steel dove loads are pretty comparable to some lead shot.
     

Share This Page