Blacks and Voter ID

Discussion in 'Political Action Forum' started by KENNEDY63, May 10, 2013.

  1. jaeger19

    jaeger19 Elite Refuge Member

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    You really just don't understand.

    There simply is no, no evidence that illegals voting is a significant problem.

    Cripes man.. if illegals voting was such an issue.. Idaho would vote DEMOCRAT..:nutz

    You want big government to fix a problem that simply doesn't exist..."

    "take a representative sample"... yeah.. thats what the IRS claims it was doing to enforce the law too. What happened? They targeted conservative groups.

    So what stops the government from deciding that that "representative sample" that has to produce papers is coincidently all republicans in a battleground state? :doh

    There is the real irony... YOU keep your head in the sand and keep calling for more government regulation. Folks having to have to "show their papers" and "prove they are citizens" for a non existent problem...

    And WHY? Because you are fine with it because its the Republican party pushing it.
     
  2. Glendonboy

    Glendonboy Elite Refuge Member

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    We know illegal immigrants routinely lie to obtain employment (Federal law requires employees to sign a document called an I-9 Form upon becoming employed swearing under penalty of perjury that he or she is authorized for employment is a citizen or lawfully admitted alien and to provide two forms of ID to prove it.) These clear cases of perjury are rarely prosecuted by the feds. And why would we think illegal immigrants, whose presence in this country is a crime, would be above a little more crime in order to obtain employment?
    Once that sinks in, why would we think illegal immigrants would not also lie to obtain medical care in public hospitals, food stamps, unemployment benefits, and register to vote? Only two states actually require proof of citizenship in order to register (Arizona and Kansas). The others merely require the applicant sign a sworn statement attesting to the fact that he or she is a citizen. But this is what is asked, and routinely perjured, on the I-9 Form.
    Illegal immigrants who are illegally registered to vote would have interest in seeing to it that Republicans do not come to power with their far right ideas about requiring proof of citizenship to vote and to be employed in this country. If these laws were enforced, it might be intolerable for illegal immigrants to live in the U.S. They would lose employment, subsidized medical care, and the right to vote for candidates who will protect an illegal way of life.
    You justify the opposition to laws requiring proof of citizenship in order to register to vote by the claim that poor people do not have birth certificates or passports. But it is required by everyone, including the poor, to produce such documents when becoming employed for their I-9 Forms. And if that is tolerable, then it must also be tolerable for the same documents to be produced to register to vote. The photo ID to vote is a smokescreen. The fraud starts at registration.

    There is a huge problem with voter fraud and it is proven by cries of the liberals, the beneficiaries of the fraud, toward enforcement of our laws.
     
  3. jaeger19

    jaeger19 Elite Refuge Member

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    Ahhh.. back to the old liberal argument.. if one law is okay.. then more laws are okay too..:doh

    One..the last I checked.. we did not have a right to be employed... however, we do have the right to vote...
    so comparing an EMPLOYER documenting your social security number to having to prove your citizenship before a GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL before being allowed to vote aren't really in the same ballpark.. Not really on the same planet :fp.

    They are able to do so because those that employee them wish it and lobby Congress to continue to allow it. If the employers did not want illegals, they would not be here.

    Right.. and do you propose that we all carry our papers with us when we go to the hospital? Hey.. maybe you should have a chip placed in your arm so that they can scan you in case of an accident and can't show your papers..:nutz

    The question is just how much do you want to make the rest of us prove our citizenship every time we turn around because you are afraid that illegals might possibly vote illegal? Especially when there is no evidence that it is a significant problem

    Well, we know the answer to that...

    But as a conservative.. it makes more sense to me that we simply hold our government to enforce the law and punish the employers that are hiring these illegals and the problem will largely go away.

    Or we can go your liberal route and tremendously expand the role of government into a police state. "Papers Please".


    Yeah.. bull... the immigration problem we have is not just the result of democrats.. far from it in fact.. its the result of years of Republican administrations as well.

    The republican voter Id laws are not about stopping illegal immigrants from voting.. they are about stopping democrats.. legal citizens from voting. which may sound good to you.. until the democrats are in charge of such and then they use the very laws against republicans.

    Case in point.. Florida.. purged 2000 LEGAL voters from its rolls. LEGAL voters

    And yet that doesn't give you pause..

    The fact is.. you have not been able to come up with any evidence that illegal voting is a major issue in this country..

    And I and others on this board have shown that it has been studied and that there has been no evidence that voter fraud is a significant problem

    Illegal Immigration and work? Yes.. and we have proof of such.

    Voting? No...and yet you want more government intervention

    and here is the real kicker..
    .. you not only acknowledge that the government is not appropriately enforcing the laws on the books... so your answer to the non existent problem of illegal voting is to create more laws and give the government more power....:nutz
     
  4. API

    API Political Action Forum Moderator Flyway Manager

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    We Americans are indeed fortunate to move and take action domestically so freely. For example, should one travel internationally they will see they darn well better have ID on their person all the time to confirm that they are who they say they are and are in a place that they are authorized to be.
     
  5. Glendonboy

    Glendonboy Elite Refuge Member

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    So you would be in favor of the Feds aggressively prosecuting those who falsify I-9s making it tougher for illegals to earn and self deport?
     
  6. Glendonboy

    Glendonboy Elite Refuge Member

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    I don't disagree with your last statement. And I don't disagree all involved are responsible for the present iillegal alien situation, but only one side is making any effort to stop the *******ization of US citizenship and the fraud in the welfare and voting system . Liberals are in denial of any problem. The first step in solving a problem is admitting there is one.
    You will have to carry your "papers" if you want the insurer or government to pay for your hospital care not if you get it or not. That is present law. The problem is at signing up for services or voting there it no proof of citizenship required. We don't have the money to not screen.
    The 2000 in Florida were never proven to be legal or not. They were on the books as legal, but so are many that are illegal.
    They same lie is told to work and vote. It would be niave to assume illegal registration is not taking place.
     
  7. jaeger19

    jaeger19 Elite Refuge Member

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    Prosecute? No.. because thats ineffecient and extremely expensive trying to prosecute and deport thousands if not millions of people.

    its rather simple really... Employers send in an I-9..

    If employers are audited and do not have I 9's on their record books.. then they suffer a HUGE fine for each offense.

    this will get the employer to have I 9's or face huge penalties. (not worth the savings of hiring undocumented workers)

    Secondly, when falsified I -9's are present.. the federal government SHOULD aggressively inform the employer that this person is ineligible to work and should aggressively pursue the employer IF that employer does not immediately terminate said employee.

    Illegal immigrants are here because employers will hire them, and the federal government, both democrat and republican refuse to make employers adhere to the law.

    Instead.. the rhetoric.. and its really rhetoric, focuses on the illegal immigrant and not on the employers that are hiring them. We spend billions upon billions of dollars on fences, and border security and try to curtail citizen freedoms by requiring US citizens to have to proof they have a right to be here at every turn...
    when all we have to do is remove the reason that illegal immigrants come to this country using the tools that we ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE..
     
  8. Glendonboy

    Glendonboy Elite Refuge Member

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    The enus has always been on the employee to show documentation not the employer. We could use SS# and a small PC network and end it all. OK then lets have a 5000 fine for the 1st offense per illegal hired for an employer. 2nd offense 1 year in prison and the fine. 3rd offense 5 years. They will walk home then. And solve the voter problem.
     
  9. jaeger19

    jaeger19 Elite Refuge Member

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    Well, maybe you are at least trying to get your head out of the sand. but "one side is making the effort to stop the fraud in the welfare and voting system"...

    Seriously, what a load of crap. There is very little evidence of fraud in the voting system and very little fraud from illegals in the welfare system".. Its been studied..its not really there. Largely in part to the mechanisms in place and the fact that illegals try to avoid contact with the government. Even their legal family members often try to avoid contact with the government if it might end up hurting their family members...
    Illegal immigrants are hear to work, not to vote, and not to get welfare. (Grandma isn't wheeling herself across the Rio Grande to get medicaid)

    The voting and welfare business is simply a distraction to keep you voting for republicans and is a tool to convince you to give up your freedoms for fear of a non existent problem.

    The REAL issue with illegal immigrants is jobs and wages. Illegal immigrants in this country by being basically a second class of worker... take jobs away from US citizens, they undermine our Labor Laws (because what US citizen is going to complain when they know that there are 10 illegal immigrants that will take their job and not complain) and the depress wages in this country as the decrease in wage pressure at the bottom end of the scale, decreases the wage pressure at the higher ends of the scale. (One of the main reasons that wages have been depressed in this country).

    And what do republicans have to say about this? NADA. Not only Nada but in some cases talk about how.. "no one would pick our fruit, and if wages went up in farming the cost of fruits and vegetables would go up, and and and".. a hundred other reasons that employers should be able to maintain the status quo. Because it makes certain industries BILLIONS of dollars each year and part of those billions flows into the hands of politicians both democrat and republican.

    And there you go.. so people without insurance, illegal or not.. that don't have the ability to pay, will continue to get "free" healthcare...

    Because you and I don't want our and especially our childrens emergency care delayed until we manage to produce documentation.

    Actually they were found to be legal. Thats why all the hub bub.

    No its not... working and voting are two different things.

    You know what they say about "assume"

    We KNOW that illegals are working in this country.. we study it, we find it through the rather large footprint that they leave.

    The Bush administration spent YEARS trying to make the case for illegals voting in fact, fraud of all kinds, and simply could not find it...



    Stop letting your prejudice get in the way of the facts. You will be a better citizen for it.
     
  10. Glendonboy

    Glendonboy Elite Refuge Member

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    There is a huge problem with voter fraud and it is proven by cries of the liberals, the beneficiaries of the fraud, toward enforcement of our laws.
     

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