California Condor Making a Comeback

Discussion in 'California Flyway Forum' started by Tuck31, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. Tuck31

    Tuck31 Elite Refuge Member

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    Where are all the dead coyotes and other scavengers dying from lead? Bears that eat gut piles? Lead ban was a political decision as part of the incremental war on guns (here's a way to discourage gun ownership, let's make shooting more expensive!) and to lesser extent hunting.

    I would really like to know how many lead bullets actually remained in gut piles (all the deer I shot it was pass through except one that was lodged in hide after hitting a bone), and as to those that did, how many remained after the bears and coyotes got to it before the condors got their share.

    If you think about it, it is quite a fantastical claim that condors were getting poisoned by hunters.
     
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  2. Speckslayer

    Speckslayer Elite Refuge Member

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    I don't care enough to go look up the information. But it would be pretty simple to figure out. Just look up lead poisoning statistics of condors prior to the lead ban, and look at where they are now It should be pretty easy to see if there is a correlation or not.
     
  3. Tuck31

    Tuck31 Elite Refuge Member

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    I would generally agree if 1) other sources of lead could be eliminated and, 2) I could trust the people doing the study. Data can be manipulated and frequently is for political purposes. I would think wounded ducks before the waterfowl lead ban would be a main food source of condors. I'd like to see lead studies on condors in the 60s through 80s. Upland game not so much, and even less for large game for the reasons I noted earlier.
     
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  4. tule

    tule Elite Refuge Member

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    Because you trust everything DFG and Federal Biologists say? Dont you think that they support the hand that feeds them and will sway evidence based on "political agenda" and not absolute truth?? A good friend of mine is a biologist, and let me tell you just how endangered Red Legged Frogs are........yeah, thats right, they arnt. Oh wait, wasnt a rainbow trout the "culprit" of eating all the RLF's in streams so they stopped plantings and eradicated them only to find out that it was bull frogs that were preying on them...........but I bet they still dont plant those streams.

    Im really surprised Browns "illegal immigrant train" hasnt plowed through RLF territory out there in the valley, must be the only place in CA that they dont exist.

    Condors were dying because they were getting electrocuted by the PGE towers that they used as perch's, but because EVERYONE needs power PGE wasnt messed with and because the Libs want guns gone whats the next best thing!! Go after hunters and blame them!!

    And yes, they found traces of LEAD in condors...........just like they would find traces of LEAD in your blood as well..........its there and always will be.

    Better eradicate all the stripers as well, after all, they are the reason for the decline in salmon numbers.........according to state biologists. Of course the 70+ years they have co-existed doesn't count.

    And lets limit Pintail to one per day in hopes that the number of pintail increases so much they will have to go down other fly ways and populate them...........yup, more biologist logic.
     
  5. H20DAD

    H20DAD Elite Refuge Member

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    I find it funny that nobody points to the pointlessness of working with a species that has a genetic bottleneck of 22 animals.

    They are extinct no matter how many biologists we fund and no matter how many peoples lives we ruin to make them have an ideal "fake" existence.

    It is not the end of the world to have a species go extinct. The worse thing is all the examples of where this "single species management" around the country is destroying otherwise healthy ecosystems for the benefit of biologists and their "employment species."
     
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  6. Speckslayer

    Speckslayer Elite Refuge Member

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    22 makes it challenging. But look up how many tule elk there used to be.
     
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  7. H20DAD

    H20DAD Elite Refuge Member

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    Not a species. I don't know the details of tules well but I'm guessing they had Rocky Mountain or Roosevelt genes cut into the herd.

    The Florida panther in reality is 75-90% Texas mountain lion.

    Can't breed condors with anything else....
     
  8. J.Bennett

    J.Bennett Elite Refuge Member

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    Just to clarify...
    Neither the DFG nor the Federal Biologists claim that the California red-legged frog is endangered. It is listed as "threatened" by the ESA and has no status with CESA. The California red-legged frog is considered "threatened" due to invasive, non-native bullfrogs that prey on them. Red-legged frogs live at elevations from sea-level up to about 5,000 feet and have been coexisting side-by-side with native rainbow trout for millennia and the biologists never suggested that trout are the reason for their decline.

    However, the Southern mountain yellow-legged frog (ESA and CESA listed as "endangered") and the Sierra Nevada yellow-legged frog (ESA listed as "endangered" and CESA listed as "threatened") live at elevations of 4,500 to 12,000 feet, mostly in and around lakes and high mountain streams that would never have trout (or any other large predatory fish for that matter) in them unless we put them there. The introduced trout are widely accepted as the reason for both species of yellow-legged frog's decline and the planting of trout in areas where the frogs live and the trout shouldn't live has ceased.

    The red-legged frog can not tolerate high temperatures which is why it is found along the coast, and in the lower elevations of the Sierras and not found in our hot, dry interior valleys.

    The above is flat out wrong (not the part about condors getting electrocuted, but the part where you insinuate that it has not and is not being addressed).
    https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/shared/environment/pge/stewardship/avianprotectionplan.pdf
    http://www.npr.org/2015/08/30/435822384/small-shocks-help-enormous-birds-learn-to-avoid-power-lines

    20% of all free flying condors in any given year between 1997 and 2010 had blood lead levels of 450 ppm or greater. For reference, if a 5 year old child had blood lead levels of 450 ppm, it would be considered a medical emergency as the child would be considered "clinically lead poisoned" and chelation therapy would start immediately. Slightly more than "traces."

    According to which state biologists?

    The only goal is to maximize harvest over the long term. In order to do that, a certain population level must be maintained...

    But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.........
     
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  9. Refugeguy

    Refugeguy Senior Refuge Member

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    Per the guy giving orientation at grizzly last week. 500k-1 mill down to 3 to 8 elk.
     
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  10. ricer man

    ricer man Senior Refuge Member

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    [​IMG]
     

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