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Canadian residents thoughts on non-Canadian outfitters

Discussion in 'Canadian Hunters Forum' started by mallard 15, Oct 17, 2005.

  1. webfootedquacker

    webfootedquacker Elite Refuge Member

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    I think TPM is correct, Canada is very dependent on the US economy. The facts and figures back that up.
    Now you may very well be correct that China COULD be a recipient of your goods, but that hasn't happened yet. And if it does, the US will still be a large if not the still the largest consumer of your goods.
    And the relationship economically between the two will still be way skewed as far as what Canada buys from the US as opposed to what the US buys from Canada.
    I can't see the Canadian government risking 80% of their economy over 100 or so waterfowl guides that come from the US. That just won't happen.

    With the free trade laws we have, I don't see how its possible to not allow US guides in Canada.
    I also think it seems a tad bit hypocritical to enjoy the thousands upon thousands of jobs that the Canadians receive in the US every year, but scoff at the small number of US residents being self employed in Canada for only a part time.
     
  2. tikka300

    tikka300 Elite Refuge Member

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    We're kinda like mexicans in that sense. The only jobs we Canadians are allowed to take in the states are the ones you americans don't want - nurses, doctors, engineers, hockey players, etc. ;)
     
  3. bang you'r dead

    bang you'r dead Canada Forum Mod. Eh! Moderator Flyway Manager

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    The only jobs Canadians can get in the US are those which can't be filled by US citizens, ie. a shortage of professionals such as doctors, pharmacists, and nurses. You will not allow hunting guides or trades people to work in the US, without going through some pretty complicated rules and regulations. Similarly, I don't think we really need any US guides coming here. We have enough local guides to P.O. the hunters, the less imports the better. Again, I have no problem competing or hunting with freelancers from the states, most of you are great sportsmen and fine people, but my dealings with the illegal outfitters has left a bad taste in my mouth. As to trade with China, it is doubling every few years. I wouldn't be as concerned as I would if I was an American, considering China , by the end of the year, will have bought over a trillion US dollars (that's 12 zeros). At what point will the Chinese be able to influence the US monetary policy. If they dump their dollars on the market, what is going to happen to the greenback? Its an interesting situation. Any economists out there?

    I'm not an economist, but I stayed at a holiday inn express.
     
  4. WildCanuck

    WildCanuck Elite Refuge Member

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    "The reason NA companies are tripping over themselves to get there is to take advantage of cheap labour."


    they also realise that it's the worlds largest untapped market that is on the brink of bursting wide open.... the purchasing power that society could have as the government losens the reigns on it ( as it has been doing for over a decade, no one could call that nation a communist or socialist nation anymore) would be enormous if capitalist societites market to their population properly... look up an anthropoly study on China.... ruraly China has been developing rapidly, at paces far superior to those witnessed here when we were developing.
    Anyways, how's the hunting in Ontario? we're having the best year in a while, the birds are big and numerous!!
    hit em hard,
    WildCanuck
     
  5. TPM

    TPM Elite Refuge Member

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    That's pure hype. For a market to exist it takes more than simply a population. They also need purchasing power, which they do not have. Even if a free market were to develop (which is not likely) it will take many decades before their purchasing power rises to the level of significance. We've been working on Mexico for years and they still amount to almost nothing, with a far better political system than China.

    Surely you jest. They most certainly are. Ask the thousands who are in prison right now for either their political or religious view.

    Of course they are. When you are at the bottom, it doesn't take much to rise. Again, let's see how long it takes for them to get to our level.

    Fantastic!

    Here is a typical example of "hyping China:"

    http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/28/auto1-363339.htm

    Notice how they try to spin this as positive, but in reality profits are way way down and the so-called growth is not what it appears.
     
  6. Lorne MacDonald

    Lorne MacDonald Senior Refuge Member

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    Just for information purposes ; Canada & the US are each others largest trading partners. Which means that while the US is our largest single customer we (Canada) are also the USA's largest customer. That little bit of info always seems to get glossed over.

    Original thread question - I have no problem with legal outfitters, regardless of nationality.
     
  7. TPM

    TPM Elite Refuge Member

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    Actually, I don't think that's correct, but we need to check it out to be sure. The US economy represents nearly 1/3 of the economy of the entire WORLD!. We are less than 2%, thus by the numbers we just don't have the money to be that significant. However, it may be correct if you consider that while we might be their largest customer, they only export a very small fraction of their total economy to Canada, versus Canada relying on 80% of our exports to the US and 80% of our entire economy relys on exports.

    The bottom line: Canada is heavily dependent upon the US economy, but the US is not heavily dependent upon ours. If we disappeared tomorrow they would barely notice.
     
  8. Lorne MacDonald

    Lorne MacDonald Senior Refuge Member

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    TPM

    Largest single customer.

    China replaced us for the month of July in terms of selling the most , publicly available information - Globe and Mail reported the China thing last month

    And I appreciate the total volume that the US represents.

    Do you really believe that if nothing moved across the border beginning tomorrow (north or south) that the USA would barely notice ? If tomorrow the powers that be , on both sides of the border, said nothing moves north or south effective NOW I'm pretty sure the US would notice. Certainly it would have a far greater immediate impact on Canada and the markets that we would reestablish for our products would not/may not be as advantageous.

    I'm not saying it would shut the US economy down or anything but if you really believe that, with all due respect, you need to look around Canada a little more closely. And I don't mean simply energy (oil, gas, electric) although that is significant.
     
  9. bang you'r dead

    bang you'r dead Canada Forum Mod. Eh! Moderator Flyway Manager

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    This is a general gist about the chinese thing. (Over a year old, you can increase the numbers a bunch)

    The largest buyers of US government debt have been the central banks of the Asia-Pacific. The central banks of Japan and China alone hold more than $1 trillion of US Treasury bonds as foreign currency reserves. Worldwide foreign central banks hold some $1.3 trillion of US government debt. If private debt is added, the United States is the world's largest debtor, with some $3.7 trillion in net foreign debt, as of the start of this year, likely well over $4 trillions by now. In 1980 when Ronald Reagan was elected the US was the world's creditor with a plus of $1 trillion.

    Nations depending on the large US export market, recycle their trade surplus dollars back into buying US Treasury debt, to keep their currency fixed to the dollar. Because Japan and China and others continue to buy record sums of US debt, paying with their hard-earned trade dollars, US interest rates can remain far lower than otherwise. Were foreign buying of US bonds to reverse or even slow, the US Treasury would have to offer higher interest rates to lure investors to buy the debt. That would make interest rates on homes more expensive very fast. Millions of homeowners would face default. Prices would collapse in many regions, leading to higher unemployment.

    This will not be like the dot.com crash, which was a deliberate crash caused by the Fed raising rates to deflate that bubble. In 2000 interest rates were 6.5% and the Fed had room to lower to 1% and create the housing bubble alternative for money to keep the economy afloat on a sea of debt. This time, rates are at historic lows, debt at historic highs, dependency on continued foreign capital inflows is unprecedented.

    Speculation has become global as never before. The cheap credit in the dollar world has led to cheaper credit worldwide. The economies of Brazil, Mexico and even Argentina benefit from banks and speculators like George Soros who borrow at the super low US or Japanese interest rates to invest in bonds in high interest rate lands like Brazil or Turkey or Argentina. These so-called emerging markets have been booming in the past year on Greenspan's promise to keep US rates so low. That now is beginning to look very risky. As well, Bush Administration talk of possible terror attacks around election-time, is making many major investors fear risking investing in US stocks or bonds. They are instead beginning to cash in their recent profits from the Greenspan stock boom of 2003-04, and holding it in safe cash.

    That is a major reason the US stock and other markets have been in steady fall in recent weeks. The US debt bubble depends on maintaining the myth of a US recovery to lure foreign capital to invest, helping keep the dollar from collapse. Should foreign pension funds of the central banks of China and Japan be convinced the US recovery is in danger, there could be a major shift of funds out of dollars.

    Yet China and Japan, fearing the dollar crisis, have recently begun heavy buying of commodities, from oil to iron ore to copper to gold. They are using their trade dollars to buy real commodities, instead of US Treasury debt, which is mere paper. Chinese panic buying of oil for stockpiling reserves is a major factor pushing oil prices again to record levels of $42 barrels despite two major OPEC quota rises. Steel prices have exploded due to China demand.

    When Bush became President he inherited a Federal budget in surplus. Since then he has created the largest deficits in US history, near $500 billion in 2004 and estimated to reach $600 billion in 2005. In 1971, when Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard, the Federal budget deficit was an "alarming" $23 billions.

    These huge deficits are financed by the US Treasury selling government bonds or similar paper to investors. Since 2001, the central banks of Asia, led by Japan and China, have bought huge sums, some 43% of all US Government debt. They in effect recycled their trade dollars gained from exporting cars, electronics, textiles and other goods to the US consumer. In the 12-month period to this April, the Bank of Japan spent a record $200 billions to buy US dollar bonds or, in effect, to finance the cost of Bush's Iraq war. The Banks of China, South Korea and Taiwan bought almost as much dollar bonds.

    They did this for clear reasons: Their currencies are linked to the dollar, and were the dollar to fall against the Yen or the Yuan, Asian exports would suffer a decline, endangering their economic growth and leading to explosive rises in unemployment across Asia. By recycling their trade dollar surplus into buying US Treasury debt, they argue they are looking after their own needs. A dollar crisis in early 2005 could signal the next global crisis. The whole world is hostage to the misconceived economic policies of a dollar standard out of contro
     
  10. h2ofwlr

    h2ofwlr Elite Refuge Member

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    As for the original topic, may I please weigh in a bit.

    Make it illegal for them. That simple.

    Cut out the season long NR license. Do a 7 day license for NRs--that is it. No more of the crap of guys staying there for weeks on end shooting limit after limit. That is pure BS IMO.

    Or do possession tags for NRs, meaning one would have to tag each bird and you are issued the tags with the lic. You get 1 possession limit total in tags. That is it. If you gift birds-it comes out of your possession tags.

    The above would limit the NR Outfitters from hunting all season too. Get rid of them out of YOUR country.


    Thanks for listening. :)
     

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