CBR - What do I need to know?

Discussion in 'Gun Dog Forum' started by smashdn, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. Rick Hall

    Rick Hall Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    8,701
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Location:
    Klondike, Louisiana
    If they only bred clear to clear, a lot of the best working blood would be lost and, to the best of my knowledge, an affected pup from a clear to carrier breeding, which is both beneficial to the breed's future and quite common among conscientious breeders, would be an anomaly.
     
  2. mihobe

    mihobe Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2000
    Location:
    N.E. TX
    I am with Rick on this, and I think most knowledgeable Chessie people also are in agreement. Many of the top performing Chessie's were and are carrier's, and in some cases at risk. In your haste to remove all traces of DM you might also remove other important traits that make the Chessie the breed we we love.
    It is very important to be aware of the issue's so that you can make informed breeding decisions, but breed for the best dog's possible not just DM clear.

    Rick, I need to get down your way sometime and let you show how your pup hunts. :)
     
  3. KwickLabs

    KwickLabs Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    4,216
    Joined:
    May 11, 2001
    Location:
    Roscoe, IL
    That's why!

    Labrador retriever breeders went through a phase of dealing with EIC. The standard is to avoid breeding carrier to carrier. Genetic testing allows breeders to make more efficient use of the gene pool. The "cheesie" gene pool is very much smaller than that of the Labrador retriever. "Informed breeding decisions" and uninformed, personal opinions are often in conflict.

    Totally avoiding any breeding of a carrier is like "throwing the baby out with the bath water".

    I have an outstanding young Lab. Her mother is an MH titled EIC carrier. The stud is an FC AFC that is clear of EIC. So is my Pounce. Genetic testing is a great breeding tool.....emotions....not so much.
     
  4. Rick Hall

    Rick Hall Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    8,701
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Location:
    Klondike, Louisiana
    He's a real go-getter:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. mihobe

    mihobe Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2000
    Location:
    N.E. TX


    LOL I have been there before.
     
  6. chessieandducks

    chessieandducks Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    2,150
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2003
    Location:
    Coal City, IL
    Strick, you are seriously misinformed.
     
  7. Strick9

    Strick9 Refuge Member

    Messages:
    57
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
    Location:
    SC
    Actually its about money not genetics as the most knowledgeble are also selling carrier pups at 2k a click, not all mind you agree to this and I would only buy from them period. There are plenty of Clear JH, SH and MH out there, it didn't take me long at all to find an all clear litter with MHxMH bloodlines.

    Simply look at the OFA and AKC reporting of Dm and you see its ranks are growing not shrinking, sad and greed related only. Rick some A/N dogs most certainly express the DM gene its been proven my last was one of them (sent to Auburn, UGA and NC state 2 of three agreed DM 3rd inconclusive as to expression) look it up partner, but its your call if you want to take that risk.

    The Chesapeake is not a small gene pool, to say that is laughable but often repeated as compared to what, Drosophila melanogaster? Knowing genetics quite well having studied them profusely and used them in my carreer it would be very easy to breed out EIC, DM, PRA, LPK in a matter of two or three gens but not so easy if your breeding stock are carriers and you sell pups at 1500-2k a piece. Thats the drive, its certainly not a concern for hunting genetics lol.
     
  8. Strick9

    Strick9 Refuge Member

    Messages:
    57
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
    Location:
    SC
    Another way to look at is this : Are there show champions that are DM clear, answer yes. Are there Master Hunters that are DM clear, answer yes.. So that tosses the argument out of loosing "desirable genetics " by breeding for clears.

    But here is the final test.. there isn't a single person out there that can say what a pup will turn into from birth to adult, however you the human can influence that from external stimulation. That said try this:

    You have a choice between three dogs one is dm clear , one is dm carrier, one is dm affected otherwise everything else is identically the same. Which one do you choose for yourself?
     
  9. mikehmike

    mikehmike Refuge Member

    Messages:
    71
    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    I have a 15month old male chessie, my first gun dog. Prepare for never going anywhere alone, lots of exercise, loyal and shedding shedding shedding. I used a pro trainer for varies parts, currently working casting with him myself and nothing but good things to say about temperament, drive etc but im sure that varies b/c I have read horror stories.

    Def a one dog owner but having said that my dog has bonded very strongly with multiple people, the pro trainer for example he can't wait to get out of the truck when we go there. But if you put my truck and hers in a field hes coming with me for sure. My dog also lived with a in tact boxer (8 years old) and never once had an issue for 8months or so till I moved

    Socialize the chessie well and in my opinion best breed out there
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  10. KwickLabs

    KwickLabs Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    4,216
    Joined:
    May 11, 2001
    Location:
    Roscoe, IL
    I realize you have a strong opinion on breeding as it relates to genetic issues. And isolating emotions from the discussion is obviously not going to happen. As coincidental AS IT MAY SEEM, I had that very same decision to make in picking my last Labrador pup. There were EIC carrier pups in the litter. I picked a female that was clear (the pups had all been tested). She is a terrific retriever, none of her siblings are affected and having a great life. On a side note, I "presently" have no intentions of breeding her later on. Given that, I totally disagree with your slant on how to deal with the potential breeding in terms of only clear to clear.

    There is nothing wrong with having strong opinions. However, injecting the issue of risk taking and apparently unscrupulous breeders into the discussion skews the scientific rationale of genetic testing.

    note: The Chessie gene pool is much smaller than the Lab's.
     

Share This Page