Cheap Alternative to Heartgard?

Discussion in 'Gun Dog Forum' started by H20Fowler, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. Dr.J

    Dr.J Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    976
    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Okie drake,

    I am having a hard time following your line of thought on this statement. IF someone is using 1% Ivermectin it is a "treatment" for the intestinal parasites but not heartworms. At that dose Ivermectin will kill the migrating L4 heartwom larvae and intestinal parasites but even at that dose to the best of my knowledge it will not kill adult heartworms. I have read some materials that indicated it may "weaken" adult heartworms but still does not kill them. Which by the way may be the "key" to some of the resistance issues but we can discuss that later. Commercially prepared monthly heartworm products work exactly the same way except that they use another product (Pyrantel) to "kill" the intestinal parasites and Ivermectin at a much lower dose to "kill" the migrating heartworm larvae.


    I think efficacy against a broader spectrum of parasites compared to some of the commercially prepared products may also play a role in the decision making of some individuals as well. But sure cost is ALWAYS an issue.

    No way are you gonna convince me that using a higher dose is more likely to cause resistance than using a lower dose. However I do think it is possible that the use of all heartworm prevention products in dogs that are "positive" for heartworms may indeed be the "key" to some of the resistance issues.


    You are quite welcome, I am enjoying the discussion.
     
  2. Dr.J

    Dr.J Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    976
    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Louisiana
    43x,

    You are quite welcome.

    I see that me&mylab pretty much covered this. Yes, Panacur will control giardia as well where Ivomec does not but this may not actually be a good thing in some cases. Giardia are basically a normal inhabitant of the intestinal tract of dogs, it is only when they overpopulate that they can cause problems and even then it is rare in my experience in older dogs. Depopulating the intestinal tract once a month of giardia may not necessarily be a "good" thing. Kinda like Doc E always talking about people overusing antibiotics depopulating the gut bacteria.
     
  3. Dr.J

    Dr.J Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    976
    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Louisiana
    FieldLabLover,

    We have been using Valbazen (albendazole) for years as a general deworming product in dogs with no problems that I am aware of. Be glad to look at anything that indicates using it may be a problem in dogs but I am not aware of it.
     
  4. FieldLabLover

    FieldLabLover Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    3,351
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Location:
    Midwest
    As long as you are still using it, that's good enough for me over anything I saw on the internet.
     
  5. okie drake

    okie drake Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    26,961
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2001
    Location:
    Indian Territory
    Correct. Treating intestinal parasites on a routine basis.

    It's my understanding that proper kennel practices and/or various manufactured products will avoid such issues but if the training/working scenarios that WRL mentioned do in fact present situations where one justifies treating for such infestations on a monthly basis with ivermection at that dosage, so be it.

    I remain skeptical but I'm also not in that situation and it's not my dogs that are ending up infested if such is happening/called for.

    Like I said, I'm looking at this topic to potentially make an alteration in my practices but for me it's not going to be dosing ivermectin routinely at 200mcg/kg.

    I think the question in general is an interesting one. Overall health impacts, various aspects of resistance issues etc. Solely ivermectin usage in 'heartgard' dose vs much higher? I'd agree with you---though it still won't be the choice for me.
     
  6. Dr.J

    Dr.J Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    976
    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Louisiana

    Okie drake,

    We still are not in sync on this. You are critical of using Ivermectin because it is being used to "treat" intestinal parasites but you are not critical of commercially prepared products which do exactly the same thing except they use Pyrantel to "treat" the intestinal parasites instead of Ivermectin.
     
  7. WRL

    WRL Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

    Messages:
    1,561
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Location:
    WA
    I would guess that your lack of knowledge or "being in the situation" would not lend itself to understanding how a "kennel" or person with multiple dogs would have to manage parasites.

    However, as Dr J pointed out, obviously there are LOTS of people that have to manage parasites on a monthly basis. Otherwise, why would one bother with purchasing a product with Ivermectin in it for heartworms PLUS have Pyrantal or another product for monthly worming of OTHER worms (ie rounds etc).

    There is a need for a majority of people to worm monthly for more than just heartworms. It comes down to the CHOICE of product and that is what we are discussing in this thread.

    WRL
     
  8. okie drake

    okie drake Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    26,961
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2001
    Location:
    Indian Territory
    I am hesitant to use that dosage of ivermectin on a routine basis in my situation, yes.

    It does indeed.

    For the two of you, is it your contention that were it not for collies ivermectin would be manufactured in canine labeled products at the dosages you're using it? (I'm not saying at all that I think or know differently, I'm just asking for your opinion)
     
  9. WRL

    WRL Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

    Messages:
    1,561
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Location:
    WA
    Yes I believe it would.

    WRL
     
  10. JHerr

    JHerr Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    4,735
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Location:
    EricDC's Blind
    For you guys in the know: will the ivomec 1% given at the .1ml/10lb rate kill ear mites? Thanks. jch
     

Share This Page