Church in the blind

Discussion in 'Christian Forum' started by Duck am, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. ducknwork

    ducknwork Elite Refuge Member

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    Haven, I'm not looking for an argument. I just like to understand people. I'm not going to preach or try to convert you or something like that. I'm genuinely curious.

    Why don't you believe? Have you always been a non believer or did something change at some point in your life to cause you to be one? Do you see yourself as always not believing in God or is there room for you to change your mind at some point? What would that take?
     
  2. havenhunter

    havenhunter Elite Refuge Member

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    It probably has its roots in a number of things. I was raised by a father who encouraged discourse. Supper time at my house was a time for serious discussion and debate. Also asking my father for permission earned you an automatic no and it was your job to change his mind. My father wasn't a my way or the highway guy he encouraged us to use our intellect and make a case for ourselves. He was raised an orphan by the catholic brothers and sisters from about 12 on and saw how power corrupts in ways that most people never get to see he instilled in us the same distrust of authority. This is not to say he was an athiest, he and I had many debates on the subject. He was a diest or at least argued from a diest view point.
    The first athiests I've ever known were my mothers parents. My grandfather/grandmother never discussed much about it other than they both felt it was "complete and utter nonsense". When they told me this I was shocked considering most of my aunts and uncles have some beliefs some are devout some are diests. I also couldn't believe people their age raised in that culture would ever be non believers.
    Through my teen years I saw some deplorable behavior from people who claimed to be moral/ ethical people based on faith. It didn't seem to jive with the idea that most people have that faith is somehow virtuous.
    In my twenties I did a little soul searching, even read the bible. There was just nothing there for me.
     
  3. Sinkbox<><

    Sinkbox<>< Senior Refuge Member

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    I recall hearing a story of little boy who wanted to go to church one Lord's day but his father wanted to go to the beach. His father explained to the young boy that they didn't have to be in church to worship God rather they could also worship God at the beach. The little boy said, "Oh, I know we can, but we won't."

    Love the pic....and I do agree we can see experience God in His creation.

    Hebrews 10:24 NAS and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

    In His love if not always in agreement.
    Sinkbox<><
     
  4. ducknwork

    ducknwork Elite Refuge Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Do you think that thinking for yourself and believing in God are mutually exclusive? It is a common accusation from atheists and I'm curious where you stand given the way your dad raised you.

    Would it be safe to say that (and Im only assuming based on the info in your post) one of the main reasons, if not THE reason you don't believe is based on the actions/attitudes/lives of those who you said claimed to be religious?
     
  5. havenhunter

    havenhunter Elite Refuge Member

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    Sorry for not responding I didn't see this until now. I think believing in god means you have to surrender a portion of your intellect (or in marshfoxs case all of it lol). It seems to be a part of human nature for some . A desire to grovel and subjugate oneself. To me if you truly want to be humble and feel small you start by realizing that a giant naked is not the center piece of the universe created in gods image.
    I would say the behavior of people of faith played a role, certainly not the deciding one. The biggest factor for me is lack of evidence followed by the threats and promises made in the bible.
     
  6. Rjm6254

    Rjm6254 Elite Refuge Member

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    Let see if I have this straight.
    Lights on
    The universe as we know it began when all the energy in it condensed into the size of a marble when internal forces triggered a nuclear explosion of elements that expanded to create the universe. All the matter we see now existed then in elemental forms that after billions of years our sun formed from condensed gases and matter and later from the matter condensing in space the earth formed and was trapped in the suns gravitational pull and bathed in its light.
    After a few more billons of years simple organisms evolved then more complex organisms and later even more complex organisms evolved.
    Several family trees evolved from common ancestors to species no longer close enough to reproduce with the common ancestors branches of the family tree.
    Millions of lifeforms evolved ,lived and then died off to become extinct.
    After a few more billions of years the sun will burn its fuel and condense into a supernova where all of the suns orbiters and all their life evolved will not exist any longer. Lights out .
     
  7. havenhunter

    havenhunter Elite Refuge Member

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    Yup. And it is wrong because its not particularly delightful? There are stars collapsing every second of everyday in the universe. Not to worry though maan kind will likely be long gone before our star collapses.
     
  8. tomr

    tomr Elite Refuge Member

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    I believe the above is known as a theory in the scientific world. Serious question. Haven, Mitch, Tub, What makes this theory any more possible or believable than the model believed in by creationists?
     
  9. Rjm6254

    Rjm6254 Elite Refuge Member

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    The scientific model of the universe is observable and measurable in that we know some important facts about the laws that govern the universe.
    Ill call them Natural laws ,Gravity ,The speed of light,thermal dynamic laws etc
    observable stars in the universe going supernova and new stars forming as observed in Hubble telescope .I guess the major difference is there is no real need for a creator in the scientific model to explain the universe to man.
    Having belief in a god that created the universe in 6000 years or so is easily proven false .What happened before the universe formed is unknowable probably a similar series of repeating events over aeons of light time .
    Whatever the case both models work in some cases but only the scientific model allows for change as new facts come to light.
     
  10. tubshooter

    tubshooter Elite Refuge Member

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    Because we have hard evidence supporting it. Most of it can be observed. It can be tested. You can see stars being born and destroyed everyday. We can observe how the law of gravity rules the universe with absolute authority.

    Every theory has various degrees of supporting evidence. Some are so well supported they are considered fact, i.e. evolution. Some such as the big bang are less well supported but are still considered accepted science.

    Religion is not a scientific model. It has zero supporting evidence. It is in my opinion simply a way for people to add meaning to their lives regardless of its plausibility.
     

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