Church in the blind

Discussion in 'Christian Forum' started by Duck am, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. tomr

    tomr Elite Refuge Member

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    What can be observed, tested or verified here.

    What you are describing is the effect. I agree with what you arte saying in that we can observe gravity and stars etc.

    I'm looking for the cause. You believe in something similar to Rjm's statement quoted above as a cause. I believe the universe and everything in it was created by God. What makes your theory any more provable, testable, or observable than what I believe?
     
  2. havenhunter

    havenhunter Elite Refuge Member

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    I still don't see how giving a cause helps you any. The cause is unknown, same as the spark of life. Its kind of like asking you if everything was designed who designed the designer. It simply doesn't follow that with all that we know with a great deal of certainty, because there is something we don't know it all must be false.

    I have repeaatedly stated that we share a close common ancesrtry with the great apes. What I continually get is the question about how it all started. As if somehow not knowing how it all started makes our discoveries about out linneage completely wrong. Then we make the giant leap to well then the world must have been created in 7 days about 6000 years ago.
     
  3. ducknwork

    ducknwork Elite Refuge Member

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    I think that there are a lot of people that understand and believe that the creation story is/could be metaphorical. I certainly think that evolution (even though some of it doesn't make sense) probably happened, but I believe that God creating things was at the very beginning of it.
     
  4. tomr

    tomr Elite Refuge Member

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    The cause is the root of every discussion we have in this forum. You seem to be under the impression that believers surrender a portion of their intellect (translation: are idiots ) because they believe in God as the Creator. I'm simply stating that the basis or root of your belief system is substantiated no more or less than mine.

    Have you surrendered a portion of your intellect for believing in something as ridiculous as all the energy in the universe being condensed (if that's possible) into something the size of a marble then exploding, expanding, coming to life, evolving, etc. into what we see today.

    Without understanding the cause everything surrounding the effect is nothing more than theory. I don't disagree that we have a close genetic similarities to great apes. We aint apes. My barn cats aren't lions either.
     
  5. havenhunter

    havenhunter Elite Refuge Member

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    Ducknwork I happen to think that fundamentalists are correct about what the bible says. Not meaning that I Agree with the bible....
    I have to ask though if you think the creation account is metaphorical/allegory what part of evolution gives you trouble?
    I have always felt that the strongest arguments christians make for god is how having faith has affected them personally. I will concede that for some people faith can be transformative.
     
  6. Rjm6254

    Rjm6254 Elite Refuge Member

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    First we are apes man and apes are related from a common hominids ancestor we are naked apes distant cousins to the chimpanzees and other apes .
    second your barn cat and your lion are also related on there family trees with a common ancestor the Barn cat is not a lion but the lion is a cat.
    Thats the nature of evolution it produces a huge amount of life variety from within single species .Felines have produces Lions tigers leopards civets ocelots all cats but not same .Man and apes diverged from each other millions of years ago now we share chimps and monkeys gorillas etc ....all cousins that share common ancestor but different branches on the tree of evolution.
    This link is for you Tom it shows where we measured the effects of the big bang .
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/14/140317-big-bang-gravitational-waves-inflation-science-space/
     
  7. tomr

    tomr Elite Refuge Member

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    Rjm you missed my point.
     
  8. Rjm6254

    Rjm6254 Elite Refuge Member

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    Thats because its pointless.
     
  9. tomr

    tomr Elite Refuge Member

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    You are smarter than that Mitch.
     
  10. Rjm6254

    Rjm6254 Elite Refuge Member

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    If I missed it it was unclear State your point and produce any evidence to support it.
     

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