Did Dubyah Know?

Discussion in 'Hunters Rights Forum' started by La. Legend, May 20, 2002.

  1. La. Legend

    La. Legend Elite Refuge Member

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    Well it is becoming well known that some of his staff knew about serious threats that bin Laden terrorist were plannig to hijack American planes. His foreign policy committe took them serious enough that they had laid out a plan to dis mantle bin Ladens terrorist network but for some reason this plan never reached his desk prior to Sept. 11. The White House has admitted that intelligence sources had revealed to them prior to 9/11 that something big was in the air and that American airliners were going to be used. They knew of Muslim terrorist who had hi jacked a French Air plane back in 93. They killed 2 of the passengers before being force to land and being captured. they admitted they were planing on blowing up the plane above the Eifel Tower which makes the White House Staffs statement that they could not conceive terrorist using a plane for such destruction prior to 9/11 false. One of bin Ladens key players revealed after being arrested that he had plans to hi jack an American plane and load it with explosives and fly it into the Pentagon. FBI reports to the White House revealed that an unusual number of Arabs were enrolled in Flight Schools in May of 2001. The CIA had made the White House aware that two of the hi jackers were believe to be in the US prior to 9/11. No attempt was made to distrubute pictures of them to the airlines was made. They bought their tickets several days prior to the 9/11 attacks with no problem and no effferts were made to stop them. Staff meeting records reveal all this information was discussed but with no alarmity which leads us to the big question? Could it have been stopped? Who knows but it's clear that there was information that something like this was very much a possibility but no attempt was made to stop it. The White House's failure to reveal that this inormation had been made to them until now makes things a little fishy too. Why wasn't the American people told of this in the Fall of 2001 instead of waiting until a leak revealed it recently. Wouldn't it saved face and given them more credability if they hadn't waited until forced to reveal it? Why is the White House Staff hiding behind the lack of facts that they didn't know these hijacked plans would be used in such a violent way. If a plane is hi jacked, something intelligence revealed was going to be attempted, aren't the passengers life in danger? Why are they saying that if they knew these planes were going to be used in such a destrutive way they would have done things differently then? Was this a clear cut case of lack of intelligence as the White House contends or one of lack of security? Now most of you know Bush was not my choice for President. I have also made it clear that I have grown to really like the man so this isn't politics talking. Did Bush drop the ball or did his staff? Doesn't matter really. The American people hired a manager and not the team so somebody is gonna have some serious questions to answer. Also makes you wonder if the War on Terrorism is to rid us of terrorist or an attempt to save face by those who have egg smeared all over it? This is gonna get ugly.

    You shudda been here yesterday,
    Legend
     
  2. 'tween_fly_ways

    'tween_fly_ways Moderator

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    Yes, Leg, this is gonna get ugly. But it IS all politics--at least in this phase.

    There is no doubt that intelligence agencies had some information despite their resources having been reduced. The problem we have with this media frenzy, is that NOW (nearly 9 months AFTER the fact), the applicable information is conveniently funneled through what we now know as fact (or, hindsight is 20/20).

    Not only are these pieces of information more clear now, but, the MILLIONS of bits of other intelligence present at the time can now conveniently be ignored. Yes, the pieces were there to be put together which could have shown a possible scenario. But, even with what we know now it would have been difficult to have deduced the actual plan and more importantly, it's specifics.

    This is no different than FDR and Pearl Harbor, really. Though I can not stand his politics and the direction he pushed the country, I find it ludicrous that FDR is sometimes blamed for not stopping that attack. Just like today, he had the information, but not only the applicable information--it was buried in tons of other, perhaps equally important, but not applicable, intelligence.

    Gephart and Daschle are loathsome beings and I expect nothing less from them. The issue should be investigated, and we should and will learn valuable lessons to help avoid another attack, but this witch hunt preys on the country as a whole.

    If you view the situation in its entirety, not just through Sept 11 filtered glasses, you should be able to see the logical fallicy (if not the absurdity) of the current frenzy.
     
  3. Trailman

    Trailman Elite Refuge Member

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    I've been watching this on the news. I guess my question is just what did you expect him to do? Arm the guard back then? And do what?

    The media and the opposing party has castigated the guy on profiling and tons of other things, but now it's way didn't you stop it.

    There's soo much to this issue that's just a joke, but then the attacks are from the media and the party that we would expect to get this kind of garbage from.

    You know the funny thing is that this guy is expected to fix 8 years of damage in what? 5- 6 months? Why didn't Clinton do it? Hell the white house is still after a year, trying to figure out the what, why and where of the last eight years. I doesn't happen over night. This data was available during the last years of the last administration. Ooops, the news would never point that out!

    As far as Gephart and Daschle are concerned, my better half switches channels on me when they come on. Fears I'll break the TV. I swear you can hear them squish when they talk.

    It is true, it's very hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. People who think that the Gov't is omnipresent and all powerfull in these matters probably think they have a Social security account with their name on it too.

    Back to my original point. I'd just love to hear one of these talking heads tell us what ole G.W. should have done. Shoot everything down?

    Funny I don't see any recommendations from the G&D road show. Let's just federalize and triple the pay of the drop outs that are screening the luggage now.
     
  4. Duck Daddy

    Duck Daddy Moderator<br>Tennessee Forum

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    I agree that looking at what happened for lessons to be learned has value, but that's not what this is.

    This is pollically based "Monday morning quarterbacking".

    'tween, yours was an articulate, well-thought response.
     
  5. OneShotBandit

    OneShotBandit Elite Refuge Member

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    Didn't Clinton had a chance to get OBL under his watch & didn't
    do anything?
     
  6. WoodieSC

    WoodieSC North/South Carolina Flyway Forum Moderator Flyway Manager

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    Some good questions and comments here. I think there is some truth to all of it in general, but first and foremost is that we are currently attempting to fix 8 years of mediocrity, and/or intentional dismantling of our intelligence community.

    Congress, and the US public share the blame here by allowing a traitor to be our President for 8 years. Do your research and I believe you'll see that this stuff is only the tip of the iceberg. For example, Iran now has Soviet nuclear subs thanks to a secret deal made in about 1996.

    Also, if you recall, the US was informed by the Phillipine government back in 1995 that there were plans to hijack and blow up airliners. NOTHING was done back then, and even today the government, including Bush's staff, is refusing to arm our commercial pilots. Keeping in mind that something like 75% of them have military training, and modern planes can fly with doors blown out, this is inexusable in my book.

    In my current opinion, the only two men in Washington who are worth their salt are V.P. Cheney and Attorney General Ashcroft. I just hope I'm right about these two.
     
  7. Quack_Attack

    Quack_Attack Elite Refuge Member

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    The Liberal press will have a field day with this just as they do every time a firearm is used by some wacko.

    The fact is that terrorism is very hard to control as long as some fanatic is willing to give up his life to kill innocent people. Out of neccesity Isreal has became much more regimented than the US and they still have terrorist acts on a daily basis.

    A U.S. politician would become very unpopular if he/she put the restrictions on our freedoms necessary to curb terrorist acts.

    Americans will have to wake up and sacrifice a few of their freedoms to make this a safer country.

    Airplanes and the Internet have shrunk the world we are no longer isolated from the ills of the earth. We must learn that there are more important things in this world than making a buck.
     
  8. BigBullGator

    BigBullGator Senior Refuge Member

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    All politics aside. What would anyone have done with the bits of information they might have had? What would the economical effect of shutting down the nations airlines for a few day or weeks due to a threat? Can anyone say recession? I am not saying that information was ignored to protect the economy, but it is a concern, and rightly so. If the airlines shut down because the government made them due to a threat, and a terrorist event never materialized, either because the threat was a hoax or because the shutdown prevented it, would we have been ready to bail out the airlines? Would we have much confidence in the government, not knowing if they cost us billions of dollars and immeasurable inconvenience to prevent a real attack or just blew it on a hoax?

    If on September first I told you; ?I hear a terrorist group is going to hijack an airplane (let alone four) and crash it into the Empire State Building, Sears Towers, and the Brooklyn Bridge?. You would fall on the floor laughing. Maybe ask why I kept my subscription to the National Inquirer. Except for a few whacked out conspiracy theory freaks, there is not a civilian in the United States that could honestly tell me the lived with the fear or even concern that anything like what happened 9-11 could EVER happen here.

    If I tell you today the same statement?you think twice. Even so how many of us are paying attention to the latest warning that some suicide bomber is going to blow up a high-rise apartment building and/or stage attacks in public places like they do in Israel? I know that I really don?t spend much time worrying about it. And I will not be seeking to blame someone when it happens. For the last few days I have heard people complain that they weren?t warned. Now they are crying that the FBI has said that a suicide bombing is going to happen and they cannot do anything about it. Damned if you do, damned if you don?t I guess.
     
  9. La. Legend

    La. Legend Elite Refuge Member

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    Eight years of mediocity huh? Well I guess if you call the largest reduction in the defeceit and one of the strongest economys in hstory mediocity then go ahead. Hey I didn't want to turn this into a political p i ss i n match but since that where you seem to want to take it I can run with them big dogs. Didn't Clinton attempt to pass a bill that would have strengthened airport security only to be shot down by the Repubs as a waste of money. I remember the lieing pig boy aka Rush Limbaugh having a field day with that one. Now if your looking for a traitor theres one for sure.Yeh I agree some of them Demos are being overly anxious on this but didn't they learn it from Bob Barr and his cronies? They only spent 80 million to prove Clinton got a BJ and lied to keep his wife from finding out about it. Geez that only puts him in a class of thousands of other elected officials. The sad thing is that turned out to be accident cause thats not what they were looking for. Zipper Gate turned out to be one of the biggest waste of tax payers money in our history. How could you expect the Demos to act any differently after having gone thru that? Does "you reap what you sew" come to mind?? Yeh I can just see the so called liberal press headlines if Clinton was in office: CLINTON FAILS TO STOP ATTACKS REPUBLICANS CALL FOR IMMEDIATE INVESTIGATION or HILLARY BEING INVESTIGATED FOR HER PART IN 9/11 ATTACKS. Liberal press my butt. When they don't report tHe news the way you think it should be how convenient to label them liberal. Some of you guys kill me. Never for a second do I belive that Bush could have know this and not done something about it. All I ever said is that some of his staffers, in the name of politics, just maybe didn't tell him all they knew. This is way to serious to be poInting fingers at either party and turning into a masturbation contest. If this is the case we need to blame the people and not the party they represent or should we just turn a blind eye to it and pass it off as a political shame by the opposing party? Need I say more?

    You shudda been here yesterday,
    Legend
     
  10. smd13

    smd13 Senior Refuge Member

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    legend,
    overall i agree with your statements. i have to admit that all politicans and polictical parties are out for themselves and a party politics. neither care for the people.
    however, most mainstream news groups are liberal. and they will report that way. most sided with clinton over his zipper gate.
    they over looked his perjury in the case. which is a crime. even the president cant' lie under oath. every so often there will be someone who the media likes. they will cover them with soft gloves. it is human nature to play favorites and the news media played favorites with bill. i mean take a community leader in your area and have them insert a cigar into a girls ****** and see how they ( community ) like that. i will agree that the investigation that followed was a circus, but call a spade a spade. what he did should not be tolerated by anybody or excused because everybody else does it. that sounds like a little kid who is trying to get away with something he isn't suppose to do.
    the clinton adm. played "poll" politics. they governed by what the polls showed. that made them popular. they took a page out of JFKs book on the presidency. they rarely took a stand unless it was a popular one.
    they were also, smart enough to let the economy improve on its own. under the first gw, the economy was showing improvements when his term was ending. bill just let it go about it's natural course. so he took credit for it.

    judge politicans from outside of our political affilation. because party politics will cloud our judgement.

    i think that this 9/11 subject should be investigated from outside of washington. i don't trust the gov't to do the right thing. they will try to cover it up. if someone in washington opens their mouth, it is probably **** coming out. remember, the fall guy is the one who had the least to do with it.
     

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