Economic Myths: the ongoing list

Discussion in 'World News / Current Events Forum' started by jaeger19, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. pintail2222

    pintail2222 Elite Refuge Member

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    It's the PDF: JCT Analysis 2009 Income Tax-1 Dated April 29 2011.

    The fifth paragraph of the Congress of the United States Joint Committee on Taxation letter reads:

    "In summary, for tax year 2009, approximately 22 percent of all tax units, including filers and non filers, will have zero income tax liability, approximately 30 percent will receive a refund credit, and approximately 49 percent will have a positive income tax liability."
     
  2. pintail2222

    pintail2222 Elite Refuge Member

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  3. API

    API Political Action Forum Moderator Flyway Manager

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    In other words, for us folks that paid income tax in 2009 (as well as 2010), we can expect to fork over again in 2011. As far as those getting a "refund" goes... aren't those the folks that made an interest free loan to the goobermint?
     
  4. pintail2222

    pintail2222 Elite Refuge Member

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    No - they got an interest free loan for free that they don't have to pay back.

    They got their "refund credit" from the 49% of Americans who pay in.
     
  5. API

    API Political Action Forum Moderator Flyway Manager

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    :scratch If one prepays $1000 in estimated taxes, then later determines that the actual amount owed is $900; then they request a refund of the overpayed $100... That seems like a retrun of one's own money that the government used for a while interest free.
     
  6. pintail2222

    pintail2222 Elite Refuge Member

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    If they are overpaying - it's their own damn fault for not knowing how to proprely fill out a W-4... If they overpaid during the year - they should resubmit an adjusted W-4 to their employer/HR dept for the next tax season...
     
  7. API

    API Political Action Forum Moderator Flyway Manager

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    Ya have a keen sense for the obvious. :rolleyes:
     
  8. jaeger19

    jaeger19 Elite Refuge Member

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    The only one falling apart is you Okie... you are adamant that the lowest 50% pay more in taxes:

    When asked about the upper 50% and the Bush tax cuts...

    Your response:
    So.. the lower 50% are not dodging taxes either.. they are paying based on the current tax code... the SAME AS THE UPPER 50% that are taking advantage of the tax code,
    As far as government as a source of income... the top 50% also fall into that bracket. There are WHOLE INDUSTRIES that derive a substantial portion of their income from tax credits and subsidies...

    So why the difference Okie?:l...
    Based on your responses so far.. one can only conclude that you make a value judgement on the lower 50% of americans ("the leeches" one supposes) and ascribe a negative value on them while elevating the top 50% ("producers" I believe you called them.

    Beyond the fact that taxation based on your moral judgement simply ignores fiscal reality... it also ignores the other reality that the lower 50% of americans includes firefighters, nursing assistants, LPNs, police officers, and a whole bunch of our fighting men and woman, while the upper 50% includes trust fund babies whose only contribution to society is a lackluster sex tape.

    And how EXACTLY do you deny that care? How does it work exactly. I already asked you this before and you failed to answer on another thread.

    Please outline exactly how you deny "with backbone" care to a hispanic male who enters the ER with chest pain without it "being expensive"...

    I would submit that the reason that the 90% hasn't been addressed in the past is because we have been focused primarily on the 10%.

    Yes... because it is at the expense of other healthcare problems.
    Going after employers makes sense because its a cheap solution. The laws are on the books, the immigration office is in place for enforcement. The employers have the ability to pay the fines in many cases so its actually a money maker for the taxpayer.
    Unlike walls and border patrols over a huge border or police state style documentation stops.
    And certainly unlike "refusing care with Backbone" which would take a huge cost to implement (how does a hospital determine if they are a citizen or non citizen in a timely manner.. how does it determing insurance or no insurance...
    Does the government then indemnify the hospital against lawsuits in cases where the hospital refused care to actual citizens or refused care to those with insurance?)

    Already done that. Supporting the individual mandate to have health insurance goes a good ways to improving that 90%. I believe that a good portion of that 90% of folks without health insurance could afford some type of catastrophic insurance. Folks that are very poor and children qualify for medicaid, so their is a large population of that 90% that are above the poverty line.
    If even half of that of that 90% decide to go get some type of health insurance policy rather than have to pay a fine or have their tax returns garnished, it will help the problem FAR FAR FAR more than trying to deny care to the 10% of illegals.
    I also support a revamping of health care savings accounts to reduce out of pocket expenses and move away from employ sponsored health care insurance plans but still allow the employer the advantage of paying for an employees healthcare.
     
  9. okie drake

    okie drake Elite Refuge Member

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    Yes, I make a value judgement regarding those that do nothing and those that work, employ, and pay taxes. Dang right I do. I don't excuse the problems with either but I also don't say they're identical as they are not.

    How does it do so?

    Exactly the same way you make every illegal getting free care a 'hispanic male with chest pain'. The machine is obviously in your backyard. Truck it over to a CA ER and we'll get started.

    I would submit that we haven't been and aren't focused on the 10% and that it's also not the reason. Boy, we both did good there didn't we?

    I'm all for going after employers, never said otherwise. That being 'cheap' has nothing at all to do with the merits of doing other things.

    Individual mandate when the vast majority of folks are currently covered will not produce the improvements you claim (ignoring our other differences on such), nor was it or will it be proposed outside of a disaster like Obamacare. I note the exemptions continue to roll out for the unions and libs, so shocking.

    You call for people to be forced to buy coverage but yet continually tell me how folks can't afford anything. I guess they can magically afford coverage now that you want them covered. Heck, you want people to have the coverage they should have as opposed to receiving the care they can afford? Make current coverages more along the lines of the 'catastrophic coverage' you refer to rather than incentives to be seen for every sniffle. Penalize noncompliance with PT, meds, etc. We've talked about 'wellness incentives' before and without real meat they'll be worthless but there are options there.

    Regardless, we're a nation that doesn't want to say 'no' at the end of the day and we ignore instances where 'no' does indeed exist as if doing so makes it go away. Without 'no', you can implement all you want, we can't keep it up.
     
  10. pintail2222

    pintail2222 Elite Refuge Member

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    No - I just point out the errors of those who are oblivious...
     

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