Endless whistles

Discussion in 'Gun Dog Forum' started by marshmob, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. Rob DeHaven

    Rob DeHaven Elite Refuge Member

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    Once again if you are having to handle on multiple marks you have problems. You can decide what those problems are.
     
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  2. Keith S.

    Keith S. Senior Refuge Member

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    Did this handler whistle his dog(s) to come IN after the dog picked up the bird or actually use his whistle to help the dog(s) find the birds?
     
  3. Keith S.

    Keith S. Senior Refuge Member

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    Tough to say on an Internet forum without seeing anything. Not all handles are created equal. What if in the first series the dog has a complete brain fart and has no clue where a bird is and gets handled. Then in the second, it sets up a great hunt that is all over the area of fall, but can't dig it out, then His hunt area gets bigger and bigger until he is out of the area, gets handled back to the area of fall and comes up with the bird?
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  4. JFG

    JFG Elite Refuge Member

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    All senerios are subjective, hence why the people scoring the events are called "judges" ...
     
  5. Red Devil

    Red Devil Senior Refuge Member

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    Quite possibly

    Lordy I hate this.......Technically possible in HRC to handle on SIX marks and pass. It is also possible (and far more likely) to have no handles and fail for marking and memory. A dog that demonstrates it recognizes the area of the fall and establishes a hunt in the area of the fall has demonstrated marking and memory on the 2nd and 3rd birds. What happens after that is up to the handler, the dog and the judges. I really, really, really hate this one handle = marginal, 2 = fail mindset. It leads to handlers letting Fido run wild when a quick handle would have recovered the bird. Ideally I want to see one clean marking series from a handler and his/her dog, but there are so many factors to consider. As a judge, I sit in the chair to evaluate the dogs as hunting companions. It is not a "game" it is a serious evaluation against a standard. The rules allow HRC judges considerable latitude to decide if a dog has demonstrated adequate marking and memory at each level. So Doc, if you are ever in my gallery and I hear you telling some novice "two handles and yer out" I'm going to make you sit off to the side and make you wear a big pointy (camo, of course) hat with a big 'D' on it:dv

    AKC this weekend was at a test where more than one dog handled on 1 bird in each of three series and passed. I have seen passes from dogs with a double handle on one series.

    I also really hate to see a dog running all over God's green creation and eventually stumbling on the bird. This dog has not demonstrated marking and will probably me scored worse than the dog that just misses the area of the fall, establishes a hunt somewhat close to the area and is eventually handled to the bird.

    Morale...run your dog. Let the judges judge, show your dog to its best advantage and let the chips fall where they may. In HRC at least, please remember we are supposed to be evaluating hunting dogs, not dogs playing a game.

    Random thoughts from someone who has spent more than one weekend in the chair and has scars to prove it.
     
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  6. Doc E

    Doc E Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

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    In your scenario, if I were judging, the dog would fail.

    .
     
  7. Doc E

    Doc E Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

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    In HRC, 1 + 1 = 0

    .
     
  8. chessieandducks

    chessieandducks Elite Refuge Member

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    And this is why you don't judge and your wife runs the dogs!! :l
     
  9. Doc E

    Doc E Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

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    Because you don't know the real reason, your comment is forgiven.

    .
     
  10. Dorkweed

    Dorkweed Elite Refuge Member

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    I'm a AA judge at all levels in HRC. I can tell you this, that there are "NO FREE HANDLES"............whether it be on marks, blinds, diversions or fliers (upland). Once you decide to blow the whistle to handle, or if the judges tell you to, you and your dog are being judged on HANDLING plain and simple. If you're running Finished, your dog better demonstrate finished level handling/control..............likewise for Seasoned.

    If your pooch makes the AOF and cannot find the bird and you handle and your dog has WR, WR, WCR, WR................while not marked down in "marking and memory" section, you've scored some serious serious mark downs in handling and control.............and likely will have failed the test. Those WR's and CR's all count the same whether they're in AOF, TAF or on a blind etc.

    The "Free Handle" is a misnomer in a ways. For example: your dog makes the AOF, puts on a hunt and then is leaving the AOF, you whistle, cast, whistle, cast, and dog is on the bird..............that would be the essence of a "free handle". The dog demonstrated the proper level of handling/control, and it is likely noted in my book: unlike the prior example; where the handler may be told he's failed the due to handling/control.

    Like RedDevil posted above; there's nothing I hate worse (at Finished especially) than a dog running all over the test because the handler doesn't want to blow a whistle and handle on a mark. I'm paraphrasing here, but in the HRC rulebook is says that a quick handle is preferable to an extended hunt. Extended hunt for many handlers seems to be to let their dog run all over the place, stumble on the bird (SOB in my judges book)!!!

    I wanna see that camo dunce cap!!
     
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