Good Article- Expert Dog Trainer Robert Milner Says Heck No to Shock Collars

Discussion in 'Gun Dog Forum' started by bigbrit, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. Mike Boufford

    Mike Boufford Elite Refuge Member

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    I don't see the elitism either. What I do see are a lot of hardworking people who will devote their time, effort and money in helping others out. We all started at that point where we just wanted to have a better hunting retriever. Some folks forget that and some folks seem to never have learned that those in the know were in their boots at one time so they call the top people elitist - kinda like the media is doing to Phil Mickelson right about now.
     
  2. Luv2sled

    Luv2sled Elite Refuge Member

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    I don't really have a dog in this fight but following this threads leads me to a couple conclusions. #1, Robert Milner must have a crappy training program, #2, his son must be about 5 years old.
     
  3. EvanG

    EvanG Elite Refuge Member

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    #1 I don't think it would be fair to call it "crappy". Insufficient for reliable, upper-level fieldwork would be more accurate. But that isn't really the key point of contention. #2 sounds about right, at least developmentally.

    EvanG
     
  4. KwickLabs

    KwickLabs Elite Refuge Member

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    I have tried to live by a special expression all my life. Fortunately, I bought into it when I was young. I don't always "get there", but it is a burning goal. :tu

    "Excellence is expected" works for me as long as I succeed in keeping my priorities straight.....which means I must temper it with being realistic. I tend to be compulsive which renders being driven and realistic a two edged sword. :dv

    As you travel on the bell shaped curve of excellence, the farther to the right you end up depends on many factors. If you end up more to the right and spend too much time "lecturing" those to your left, you will be labeled an elitist. It is considered "poor form" by the majority to talk "too much" about being better especially when "better" has so many emotional levels. :nutz

    Of course the flaw in this logical explanation is that there are more than one Bell Shaped Curve. It is difficult to discuss a topic when you're not on the same page. :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Mike Boufford

    Mike Boufford Elite Refuge Member

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    Jim,

    I'm seeing a 6 sigma green belt project in your future.
     
  6. eugene molloy

    eugene molloy Senior Refuge Member

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    Mike posted
    I had quite enough of that ***** in my working life thank you very much, one of the few benefits of getting old and being retired is leaving that lot behind:sp

    Eug
     
  7. crackerd

    crackerd Elite Refuge Member

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    Wait a minute, Eug - word is Villa brought you out of retirement last fall to impart Milner's "programme" to their back defenders (the holes in which may or may not account for their porous showing week after week). Just wanted to know, has Inland Revenue caught up with you yet? :D

    MG
     
  8. GulfCoast

    GulfCoast Moderate Moderator Moderator

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    Ease up off our old buddy Eug. He may be a Brit. But he's OUR Brit, and it ain't like we got more than a couple. :l
     
  9. Mallard Mugger

    Mallard Mugger Senior Refuge Member

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    I believe you have to run that tail out further on the elite side. Perhaps 4 sigma but more likely 5 sigma to the right might capture it.

    Living the nightmare..... (when at work)
     
  10. KwickLabs

    KwickLabs Elite Refuge Member

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    Is that bad?

    Whether of not, I still had to do a "Google" search to find out what you were referring to. :scratch

    Rule #1 one in critiquing the opinion of a retired, random/sequential thinker.......do not provide extraneous information. :grvn

    I quicky "skimmed" my search results (probably skewing the concept) and came up with my modified, streamlined "six sigmas".....whatever that means. What's with the "green" thing......profits?

    1. set strategic objectives
    2. focus on support in overcoming resistance to change
    3. quantify measurable defects
    4. identify and focus on results providing incentives and accountability
    5. provide extensive training and team deployment to increase efficiency (more results in less time)
    6. create experts in achieving the previous five Sigma philosophies

    All I did was present a graph that "suggests" that 50% of all retriever trainers are below average. :confused:

    Since I train alone (most of the time) and many of my experiences (good to mediocre) are posted on the Internet, I'm thinking...so what? :z

    Being retired allows me......a great deal of freedom....with almost too much time. Notice, I did say "almost". ;)

    Geez, I hate winter.....nothing to do but write a post (or 20).

    I thought I was finished. After reading a very long thread (somewhere else) on Pavlof vs. Skinner) I have a question. How many of you continue to review your training attempts to make sure positive and negative "actions" are being properly applied (every waking moment of your dog's day). Please note this question is not just for e-collar advocates.

    For the record, I can't think of a single instance, in the last ten years (plus), that either (Skinner or Pavlof) have been mentally "referenced" in the field or the aftermath of any training session. Is that bad....too? :rolleyes:
     

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