Thank you all for the info and insight you provided, I used a lot and did what I thought was the best route. I finally got the chance after vacation to chase the big birds with a bow. The first flock of 20 came in and sat at 21yds, I jumped up to draw and spooked em, figures. next few flocks I came to a full draw in the blind and slowly stood up, worked perfect. went 2 -2 on my first shots, my first miss happened to be at a lovely neck collar which I think I got buck fever...figures. ranged him at 24 and used my 30yd pin...got to watch the arrow sail right over his head! ended up with my 4 and my last one coming on my last arrow. lesson learned - BUY CHEAPER ARROWS! as I only recovered 3 of the 8. Thanks again guys! I will have another update if they get back into my field this season.