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Illinois General Assembly 2nd Amendment Update From Vandermyde 7/11/13 a.m.

Discussion in 'Illinois Flyway Forum' started by drylok, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. drylok

    drylok Elite Refuge Member

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    Let's try to keep this clean with just facts, updates and Q/A and try to keep the **** chat to a minimum. That way folks don't have to sift through dozens of posts to find pertinent info or updates. If I get the ability to do it I will edit this thread title to say "update **/**/13 Post X" so folks can go straight to that post and see the latest. It's gonna get fast and furious after spring break so please have your emails, fax machines and phones ready to roll at a moments notice. I will not post a call to action unless Todd requests it and when he says call it's because they are truely needed so please do it.

    Remember that there are going to be times when I can't talk about certain things on here and it's not because I think I'm double agent cia mr know it all. It's because we know for a fact that the antis watch this site, illinoiscarry and others for anything they can pick up stradegy wise to try and defeat us. Don't talk about specific aspects of the bills that we wrote, let the other side read for themselves. Also if you get confirmation from your rep that they are going to be voting for our bill don't post their name here, just say my rep or my senator.

    I'm getting kind of busy with winter production and my classes and stuff so if I miss something that you feel is an important update which is directly related to 2A issues in IL please post it here and then pm me and I'll edit the thread title accordingly if I can.

    Thanks Guys
     
  2. drylok

    drylok Elite Refuge Member

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    Had lunch with uncle tim yesterday and he filled me in on this little gem.

    People v. Donta Mosley
    decided 3/15/13
    Cook County Criminal Division
    12-CR-5646-01
    Judge Michael Brown


    20 year old on a AG UUW. Judhe says sentencing guide lines require mandatory 1 year, becuse minor with gun, NO FOID.
    But finds that 18, 19 & 20 years olds can't sign for their own FOID and creates due process violation and delcares 720 ILCS 5/24-1.6 6(d)(2) unconstitutional.
    They also find the disproportionate penalties and again delcares the AGG UUW unconstitutional

    WOW

    Then goes onto say unconstitutional on its face AND as applied he gets a Class A misdomenor at the end of it.
    Hang on I'll post some quotes from the decision. Remember this is from a court inside Cook county.
     
  3. drylok

    drylok Elite Refuge Member

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    28. In its analsys of the misdemeanor UUW statute McGee thus fails to follow the approach taken by the IL supreme court in Laubscher. facing a conflict between an appellate court decision and a supreme court decsion, this court must of course follow the supreme court. its fundamental that once a supreme court delares the law on any point its a decision that is binding on all illinois courts and we cannot refuse to follow it becuase we have no authority to overrule or modify supreme court decsions quoting Crespo

    29 thus a person carrying an uncased, loaded, immediately accessible weapon without a FOID card can be charged and convicted under either the misdemeanor UUW statute or the AGUUW statute. The greater punishment required for a violation of the Ag UUW statute can only be justified under proportionate penalites clause if the statute requires the state to prove different or additional elements to convict a defendant of AG UUW; however contrary to McGree the statute makes no such requirement. the elements of the two offenses are identical. The AG UUW statute is therefore unconstitutional under the proportionate penalites clause of the Illinois Consitution becuse it fails the indentical elements test.

    30. Based upon the prceedings discussion, this court finds the offense established by 720 ilcs 5/24-1.6(a)(1) & (a)(3)(A)&? and the punishment prescribed for the offense by 720 ILCS 5/24-1.6(d)(2) are unconsituttional based upon the proportionate penalties clause of Artile I, Section 11 of the Il consitution and the due process clause of Artilce 1, section 2 of the Il consitution;

    31 that as to these provisions the aggrevated unlawful use of a weapons statute is unconsitutional both on it's face and as applied to the defendant because it cannot be reasonably contrued in a manner that would preserve its validity

    32 that this finding of unconsitutionality is necessary to the judgement rendered and the judgement could not rest on an alternate ground and;
     
  4. drylok

    drylok Elite Refuge Member

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    Some References For The Folks New To The Fight
    *This http://www.ilga.gov/ is where you can go to find any bill you like. Just type in the bill number you want on the left side and follow the directions.

    *Our carry bill is HB 0997
    The antis "carry bill" is HB 1155

    *When a bill gets introduced it has to go to committee first, then if it makes it out of there it goes to the floor for 1st reading, then 2nd reading then 3rd reading. 3rd reading is when the actual vote comes through. Next it has to go over to the other chamber and if it passes there it goes to the governor. He can sign it into law, veto it or let it lay on his desk for 60 days at which point it becomes law.

    *When they are in session and you hear the speaker call up a bill and then say Out Of The Record that means the sponsor wishes to take it out of the record for THAT day but it can come back up at any time. Basically that means they know they don't have the votes or are just not ready to vote/discuss it at the moment.

    *When a sponsor of a bill says they're going to table a bill that means they are putting it to sleep and the bill is dead.

    *If you hear that an amendment was passed to a certain bill it just means it was approved to be added to the bill but it can be stripped away later. Happens all the time and can make it hard to follow.

    *Sometimes we talk about "shell bills" that is a bill titled XYZ and on the face of it looks like it has nothing to do with 2A stuff but they can come back edit it to whatever they want. The other side does it all the time but we play that game too sometimes.

    *Witness slips are what individuals can submit when a bill goes to committee to proclaim their opposition or support. I'll post up when we need those done if we do.

    *Super majority in our case is a bill that is required to get 71 votes in the house and 36 in the senate

    *Some people to know:
    Todd Vandermyde is the IL NRA ILA Liason (lobbyist)
    Valinda Rowe is the spokes lady for Illinoiscarry.com
    Tim Bowyer is the president of illinoiscarry.com (and my uncle)
    Richard Peirson is the VP of IL State Rifle Association
    Brandon Phelps is a downstate IL rep (D) and the chief sponsor of our carry bill
    Mike Madigan is the speaker of the IL house
    Lisa Madigan is the Attorney General of IL
     
  5. drylok

    drylok Elite Refuge Member

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    So what in the world is going on with right to carry?

    Short answer is a lot - and on multiple fronts.

    First, there is the House action. There have been many amendments and floor arguments over this part or that part of the basic concept or bill. Some passed, many did not, and the most important vote remains - Amendment 27, which is a revamped version of HB-997.

    The House seems to be off of the gun kick for a while, but there are other surreptitious attacks being waged.

    The first is the magazine ban. Unable to win a fight on banning semi-autos, the Chicago crew wants to limit us to carrying handguns with only 10 round magazines, thus half a step above revolver. We thwarted their efforts and they are really bent on that. The fact that they again over reached and went for a confiscation bill helped. But, I expect to see this come back.

    The other attack is HB-2265 and its Senate companion. Word is leaking out, and our suspicions are being confirmed, that this is an attempt by Chicago and Cook County to keep them a carry free/gun free zone for law abiding people.

    The idea is twofold. Get pinched or caught the least little bit outside of the scope of the carry law and the princess of Cook County Ms. Anita will charge you with a class 3 felony and facing 3 years of mandatory jail time. Hence, making the threat so great that no one will want to carry in Cook or Chicago.

    Or that both Chicago and Cook will pass their own ordinances and if you violate them, again you face a felony charge. Yes, I know that local governments can't charge felonies, but the theory is that since you are operating outside of their framework, and don?t follow their rules, they will charge you, anyway.

    That is why the bill has become so important to them and why they have resisted any changes to accommodate licensees. To the uninitiated, it looks like a bill to go after the carrying of illegal firearms but, look at how they are going about it. They are only trying to create an affirmative defense for those with FOID cards. This means that you still get charged, still have to hire a lawyer, still pay $10 grand to fight your way out a bogus charge and then fight to reinstate your FOID card.

    Can we fix the bill? Yes. We have made attempts to talk to them about it, but they have just refused and fallen back on the expired FOID issue. Call me paranoid, but this didn't smell right from the start. Now we know why and today?s Tribune article kind of confirms it.

    So while we have been on this merry go round in the House. The Senate has tried to start some talks about a carry bill and building elaborate spreadsheets detailing the three bills: ours, the governor/Munoz bill, and the anti-gunners/Harmon bill. So far no significant progress has been made, but we are not in direct talks over that bill.

    And true to general assembly style, they have kicked this down road and are running down the clock. The state police are still going to need to let contracts and hire new people. That takes time. None of which seems to matter to the powers that be, even though we have made pleas at the committee hearings and to them personally.

    One would start to get the feeling that they may think going over the constitutional cliff is something they can tolerate. Even though we hear that the leadership doesn't want to go there, their lack of action makes one ponder if they are trying to bluff into something else.

    The debate at the Chicago Union League Club the other day showed that the Senate is still in search of a grand bargain. The gun grabbers hate the fact they have to lose the carry issue and want either a bill that allows almost no one to carry, or a consolation prize for getting their butts kicked in court. Our answer has been an emphatic NO on both counts.

    The good news is that we have made it to the 1/2 way point in session with no anti-gun legislation passing either chamber. While the 2nd reading votes in the House have been a pain, and nerve wracking, they are not the end of the game.

    Currently, the Chiefs and Sheriffs are still supporting our version of right to carry. I am not attaching a bill number to it at this time because my bet is that part will change. But, our basic frame work is amendment 27 to HB -1155, which will most likely show up somewhere else.

    For the immediate future, we need to re-enforce to our supporters, NO BAD CARRY BILL. And we may need to prove a point and kill off a bad carry bill before this is all over.
    Look for lost or stolen to make an appearance again. I would expect the mag ban to show up as well and we may see another version of a ban on private sales.

    The one thing we have not seen yet is the Obama machine show up. Knowing that there will be 6 weeks left in the session, they and their private bank, Messer Bloomberg, still have time to try and come in and make an appearance. It won't surprise me if adding the President's home state to their gun control victories is a prize they are salivating over.
    We have townhall meetings taking place over the spring break. But the real work will begin once they go back on the 8th.

    Get ready for a showdown of epic proportions. Which reminds me of a speech from the movie Patton when George C. Scott explained that we are not going to hold anything other than the Germans by the nose while we kick them in the pants:

    "Now there's another thing I want you to remember: I don't want to get any messages saying that we are holding our position. We're not holding anything. Let the Hun do that. We are advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding onto anything except the enemy. We're going to hold onto him by the nose and we're going to kick him in the a**. We're going to kick the hell out of him all the time and we're going to go through him like crap through a goose."

    Now go get 'em.

    T Vandermyde
     
  6. drylok

    drylok Elite Refuge Member

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    Update.



    This week we spent a lot of time working on killing off HB-2265. A bill that would set up a mandatory 3 year minimum sentence for an AG-UUW.

    What might seem like an unconventional pairing, Governor Quinn office has been engaged in helping kill this proposal by Mayor Emanuel due to its nearly $1 BILLION cost to the state.

    Mayor Emanuel has taken to calling legislators personally to try and sway them. While city lobbyists have taken to portraying anyone opposing the measure as soft on crime.

    This is a very simply 2013 version of the safe neighborhoods fight of 2000 only it’s on steroids.

    We have a mayor who acts like a petulant child demanding he get things his way and stamping his feet.

    In putting the votes together it was a simple math equation that said hanging on to a majority of republicans, along with downstate democrats, and adding in the black caucus. That has made it nearly impossible for the City to find the 60 votes to pass the bill. While we have tried to tell them how to fix it, they have refused.

    We start with the fact that the state has taken little to no action on passing a carry law to address the Court’s ruling in Moore/Shepard. They have done nothing to address the unconstitutional finds of the Court on the basic UUW and AG-UUW statute. Not to mention the ruling by a Cook County Judge in Mosely where not only did he find that the statute was unconstitutional and violated the disproportionate penalties rule.



    After tying them in a knot all week, they decided to go over to the senate and try to add their language as a floor amendment to SB-1003 Late Friday. Same stuff, different chamber.

    All the while the City continues to demand that they get to set their own rules for carry in the city and that the carry law contain no preemption language. My response – “Yea Right” or you can use your imagination.

    Add to this that the Senate continues to hold secret talks about a carry bill. And the House seems to have put on hold any more floor debates.

    Add to the mix talks of drafting a bill dealing with mental health issues and FOID reporting and Sheriff Dart’s idea about picking up revoked FOID cards and firearms reporting.

    Next week we will have another run at things and we’ll see where it all is going.



    Call your state senators starting Monday and tell them to oppose Mayor Emanuel’s proposal.

    Call your state representative and tell them to continue to oppose Mayor Emanuel’s Billion dollar boondoggle, until concerns about out of state gun owners, and the carry issues have been addressed.



    Continue to call your reps and senators and tell them NO BANNED CARRY BILL.



    Updates will come in as we can explain the situation. Understand that they don’t always contain a lot of info. They might simply have a call to action. Sometimes you’re gonna have to take it on faith that there is a problem and just follow the directions. Example:

    Earlier this week, I had to put out a spot report to continue to call and state that the NRA and gun owners were still opposed 2265. The City was lying to downstate dems about our concerns with the bill and what our position was. It didn’t give me a lot of time to layout the details as I had to get to the downstate dems and let them know that we were not OK with the bill.

    We didn’t have time to name names and get into the whole who said what. It was simply important to get to those legislators and tell them we were opposed.



    I’m drained from this week. I have to try and get a couple of positional papers out. Analyze a couple of amendments, try and fix the Mayor’s boondoggle, and work on a couple of other bills/amendments for Monday.

    Session is far from over with about 6 weeks left. We should take heart that we have made it this far without any significant anti-gun proposals being passed.

    The anti-gunners lobby day was pathetic a couple of hundred people showed up compared to the 8000 gun owners who marched down the street.

    AS I said more will come, and we will have to defeat it as well as work on passing a carry law. I fully believe that we will have to kill a bad carry bill to prove we can and are serious about what we want and fought to get.

    It's after midnight I'm calling it a day.
     
  7. drylok

    drylok Elite Refuge Member

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    No big deal here because I don't even see the point of why they did this but yesterday Rep Cassidy filed an amendment to HB 831. The amendment deletes everything after the enacting clause and makes it a very draconian may issue carry bill. Please keep calling your reps and senators and tell them you ask for a yes vote on a shall issue, pre-empt right to carry bill.
     
  8. drylok

    drylok Elite Refuge Member

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    Vandermyde will post an update sometime but here's the long and short of it. On Wednesday the antis ran their carry bill and we smoked it. On Thursday we ran our carry bill and fell short with 64 of the 71 needed votes. However the sponsor (brandon phelps) dumped the roll call and filed a motion to reconsider so our bill is still very much alive.
    We caught the roll call on our bill so we know who we need to go after and see what we need to amend in order to get their yes votes. The plan now as far as I know is to do just that. We hear that the antis are going to run a carry bill in the senate in a couple weeks so we want to see what that looks like, defeat it if needs be, modify ours and go from there. At this moment there is no plan to abandon shall issue or state wide pre-emption.
    That's all I really know or am at liberty to discuss at this hour. Please hang in there with us, continue to call your reps and senators and tell them you want a NRA/Isra approved carry bill.

    We're doing our best against the Chicago machine guys. Please have faith!
    Scott
     
  9. drylok

    drylok Elite Refuge Member

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    Update 4/21/13 From Vandermyde

    Since the 4/20 update has gotten so many responses, I wanted to start this one to answer some questions and maybe explain a few things.

    There are reasons WE want a bill Not all obvious, maybe some are. You may read the amendments and bills and say we gave up this or we gave up that, I won’t go into details, but there is a strategy behind a lot of it. Some political, some personal, and some tactical. Suffice it to say I am amazed at where we are and what we might be on the verge of achieving. And I do mean achieving.

    It took the Chicago crew and the lobbyists for the RTA 2 years to figure out they were in HB-148. 2 years. Molly and a few others I talk to and debate changes with consider every word that we put in there. I was taught a long time ago words mean things.

    I was more than happy when people paid attention to the call not to discuss the SBR bill. And look at the payoff we got. I think it was a nice little Christmas present that will have more than a few guys giggling before long. Me included.

    Every change was considered closely. This is not they simply twisted our arms and we said uncle. No we debated and considered the cost and the benefits to each. But for whatever reason some still wanted more. Well that time has passed. Now we sit and wait till they come to us.

    Oh we will have to go fight a bad bill in the senate. And today, my talks with House leadership of our allies they told me, if a Cook/Chicago carve out were to pass the Senate, they will vote to kill it.

    So I hope for a committee hearing next week in the senate. IF you thought my House testimony was fun, you might want a six pack and popcorn for what I have been thinking about and what I might say.

    Now the Senate generally has a dress code and most people hanging out over there where a suit and tie, but I dunno, maybe hanging out in the lobby in my sweats and tennis shoes with my ipad checking on IC all day long will the be order of the day.

    Understand this; I/we are done talking as to changes in bills we have proposed. Now it’s time to do what we did on the MAY/MAY bill in the House and everything else. Let’s see what their 2 minute game looks like. They have to pass a bill, we don’t.

    When downstate legislators talk about carving out Chicago or Cook County so they can have a carry law for the rest of Illinois remember this, if we go over the cliff, 101 counties are going to be not much of a problem. We will have a problem with 1 county and 1 City to speak of. But there will be a right to carry there. There is no need to rush and cut a deal, carry will come to the other 101 counties on June 8/9 one way or the other. So the argument that we have to do this cause the people in “my district are tired of waiting is Bull.

    We’ll be there one way or the other in 50 days.

    You light up their phones, and I’ll work on the rest. Excuse me as I have to go grab a Heine, & polish a hammer. . .
     
  10. drylok

    drylok Elite Refuge Member

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    Update 4/23

    Senator Tim Bivens, a Republican Senator from Dixon, Illinois is about to attempt to sell the residents of Chicago and Cook County down the river.

    The US Supreme Court has affirmed the fundamental right of American citizens to self defense. The 7th US Court of Appeals has ruled that the Illinois State Statue concerning Unlawful Use of Weapons is Unconstitutional.

    Bivens, for some unknown reason of his own, has decided to join forces with a Chicago Senator to deny the citizens of Chicago and Cook County, the fundamental inalienable right to keep and bear arms and force them to get down on their knees and beg the rulers of the Chicago Machine for a permit to carry a concealed firearm. This means that only a favored few, the rich and well-connected, will get a concealed carry permit in Cook County.

    But the citizens of the rest of Illinois will not have to beg anyone. Their application will automatically be granted and cannot be denied by some local party bigwig because apparently, Senator Bivins feels they are more important and more deserving of a fundamental right.

    Contact Senator Bivens on Monday morning. Call his District Office in Dixon and his Springfield office and demand that he withdraw his participation in an attempt to subjugate the citizens of Chicago and cook County and deny to them the right to self defense.

    Stand up and demand that all Illinois politicians quit the posturing and maneuvering to deny a fundamental right to Illinois citizens. We can no longer let them rule over us. Demand that they become the representatives of Illinois citizens instead of the tyrants and despots that they have become.

    Let the fight to regain just governance of Illinois begin here and now. Enough is enough. If we do not start demanding fair and representative service by Illinois politicians, we will become just another third word country teetering on the brink of obscurity.
     

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