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In lieu of the recent bad news from up North

Discussion in 'Chesapeake Flyway Forum' started by rbr, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. rbr

    rbr Elite Refuge Member

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    Hey guys it's been awhile. I checked in on the Chessie board to see if there was any buzz about the hearing regarding the poor breeding season in the Ungava Peninsula . It seems that next year it is inevitable that some sort of season/limit restriction will be in the works.

    We can all cry till we are blue in the face about the larger limits to the North and the grey area regarding RP vs AP harvest numbers, but the fact remains that last year's bumper crop of juvies is still 2 years away from breeding age and the number of breeding pairs next spring will be down before we even know what the Spring conditions will be.

    A friend , and one of the most dedicated and hard core hunters on the Shore added me to this FB page for goose hunters who voluntarily limit themselves to 1 bird. It's not a page to debate and argue nor is it a page to criticize those who choose not to participate. It's about making your own choice. I personally cannot say that on a snowy morning in Kent County I won't take 2 but I won't every time I go and I will probably hunt my places on the Western Shore where at least 1/2 of our birds are RPs, more than my club in Tolchester.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/319...gCc6InzLkL8LSYVTgPmg7AcQbQxvK88a3s&__tn__=C-R
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  2. Ruination

    Ruination Senior Refuge Member

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    That's okay. I'll shoot my birds. Perhaps I may spend more time duck hunting though.

    Here's the thing. Most of us are only hunting once a week.
     
  3. Valleyhonker

    Valleyhonker Refuge Member

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    I’ve been following this too. Add this onto the mallard reduction that’s coming next year as well.
     
  4. Montauker

    Montauker Elite Refuge Member

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    So two mallards and one canada goose (for 30 days per rumor) per day.

    While I would hope that this would push lease prices down or thin out the crowds of ducktards, I think all it may end up doing is having an adverse affect on the bufflehead population.

    There are Facebook posts with dissertations of stupid going on about how this is an over reaction, and the numbers are fine. My favorites are from the folks who don't understand the difference between winter and breeding surveys, weren't around for the last moratorium and are in the same post bragging about killing migrators in RP zones right now.
     
    Deadrise likes this.
  5. Dirtybird420

    Dirtybird420 Senior Refuge Member

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    I just shoot widgeon n gadwalls. I never go strictly goose hunting. Way to much money n work to kill 2 birds. N if I’m on the shore I really don’t shoot many mallards. It honestly wouldn’t effect me to much.
     
  6. Trevor Shannahan

    Trevor Shannahan Elite Refuge Member

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    I’ve given plenty of dissertations over this, but they aren’t filled with stupid. Here is another one though:

    Here are my thoughts
    1) all early seasons need to go no later than Sept. 15. I’ve hunted the NY season and in those 10 extra days they get I have been part of absolutely **** pounding birds that were mostly migrators. When you can kill essentially a MD seasons worth of limits of presumably AP geese(smaller, dropping in from a mile high) in 5 days then that is going to have an adverse affect on the population.

    2) it’s my opinion that while biologists know what they are doing, they are also stuck in their ways and lack a bit of common sense. When doing aerial surveys they tend to stick to traditional survey areas, when numbers come up surprisingly low they automatically attribute it to a down year when in reality birds could have moved. I get imprinting, but when other factors are involved like weather, birds will adapt and imprinting can change. Heck it’s happened twice with wintering grounds just in this Flyway. I believe with the late cold winter and frozen breeding grounds, birds easily could have nested south of traditional nesting areas(think RP zone of Canada) This could account for a decline in the survey numbers.

    3) looking back through history the numbers just don’t add up. We have more breeding pairs than when it was a longer season and higher limit before the moratorium. Our harvest rate last year was not a historical number even though it was higher than the previous few. How can we be certain that this is a decline in population and not just a flaw in survey methods?

    4) I will not voluntarily only shoot 1 bird. I’m all about conservation, but I’m also not one to overreact to situations with little data. Science is based upon trends, not outliers, if next season proves another year trending towards a significant decrease then I will be all for 1 bird and 30 days, but IMO I believe we will see similar numbers to previous years. Until I see a trend in the numbers I will continue to abide by the current laws as they fall well within the harvest management framework. Y’all have fun setting your decoys and paying crazy lease prices for your 1 bird though
     
    duckbuster5901 likes this.
  7. Big Chris

    Big Chris Senior Refuge Member

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    65BDB5C0-B9F1-4CAD-8551-7B1DAEDEB1A2.jpeg

    I know no one wants to hear this , but a lot
    More birds stay north & aren’t accounted for. This is SE Pa. after a week in the single didgets , there was over 8k on this roost , obviously I couldn’t get them all in a pic , they just don’t leave like they used to.
     
    ED Vanderbeck likes this.
  8. Montauker

    Montauker Elite Refuge Member

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    Trevor,

    All good points and I have similar feelings on all.

    My comment about "stupid" related to the folks who know very little about the science or methodology, make ridiculous claims like the biologists are colluding, purposely don't report bands, look at harvest data rather than breeding data ,etc.

    The September seasons need a very close re-examination.
     
  9. slacktide

    slacktide Elite Refuge Member

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    at work or behind the wheel driving to work...
    I agree that the September seasons need to be reevaluated. The tremendous populations of geese that were enjoyed on the Eastern Shore in the 70's and 80's was way before anyone ever considered a September Season. Ever since we have had the "RP zone hunts" the AP goose population has suffered.. Just a coincidence I am sure, the same type of coincidence as last years record harvest during the highest population of geese during the midwinter survey; again just a coincidence....

    I anticipate that I am the source of the "stupid" comments in that I do not believe the numbers can be accurate. I reiterate that if Maryland killed 40% of the AP geese with a harvest of 176,000; this would indicate that 440,000 AP birds where killed last year on the entire flyway.... with a fall flight prediction of 700,000+/- AP birds last year ( after a good breeding season). Simple math indicates that we ( the entire flyway) harvested over one half of the TOTAL RESOURCE. That is way irresponsible and the season should be stopped immediately...( However, in one report there is a predicted fall flight of 700,000 AP geese again this fall) - I am just using their numbers... However, there must be more to this analysis .... My comments were not to discourage any drastic moratorium on the resource; I am all for protecting the resource, but fully protecting it and not singly us out ( as in the 2 bird AP season versus the 3 bird season in NY & PA, and the 8 bird season in Canada)

    I do know that there are no where the amount of geese that there used to be. Also, while we are at it, I do know that there was never 1/10th the amount of snow geese on Delmarva years ago.. Things change, and we need to change the methods in which we administer the seasons. I do know that the geese have drastically changed their migration patterns. I do not have a degree in waterfowl biology, however, observation and common sense leads to these conclusions.

    Honestly, I am all for protecting the resources. By protecting the resource this would include a complete moratorium of harvesting ALL SUBSPECIES of Canada Geese on the Atlantic Flyway with no exceptions. We have all heard of people knowingly harvesting migratory geese during the RP season... I know that it will hurt alot of people financially, but it is what is best in the long run.



    s
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  10. Trevor Shannahan

    Trevor Shannahan Elite Refuge Member

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    There is misinformation in this statement. One RP zones were still open during the moratorium
    And the AP population rebounded fairly quickly. So while I think the early season needs to be no later than Sept.15 in all states, that isn’t hurting too much.

    Also, last year was not a record harvest. There has been more geese killed in one year in MD even since the moratorium ended, that doesn’t even include the years before it where basically every year MD was killing 200k+ in the mid-late 80s
     

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