Is CWA neutral on AB711???!!!! I'm done with them if its true

Discussion in 'California Flyway Forum' started by jmonte35, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Green is Gold

    Green is Gold Elite Refuge Member

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    Straight from your study:

    1. "although the free-flying condor population within California has gone from 0 to almost 100 individuals over the past two decades, this increase is largely because of the release of captive-raised birds. In California, there have been 160 original releases, but only 24 chicks have fledged in the wild (Fig. 1)."

    Sounds like the ammunition ban has been a monumental success.:scratch

    2. " the degree to which lead poisoning impacts condor population health has not been fully understood, in part because these intensive management practices partially compensate for the population-level impacts of lead, thus obscuring the seriousness of this problem."

    Or maybe because lead isn't the problem at all. Nah, that can't be it. We need an excuse to ban hunting.

    3. "Our results show that condors in California remain chronically exposed to harmful levels of lead; 30% of the annual blood samples collected from condors indicate lead exposure"

    Looks like the current ban is a huge success story. Must be from all the hunters in non-compliance with the law.:z

    4. "∼20% of free-flying birds in California each year were in need of treatment for lead poisoning, and cumulatively over the years 1997?2010, 48% of the free-flying condor individuals in California presented with a blood lead level indicating the need for chelation treatment (i.e., 88 birds with a blood lead level ≥ 450 ng/mL of a total of 184 birds released or wild-fledged) (Fig. S1A). Many birds were repeatedly poisoned within and across years."

    What they conveniently ignore though is the fact that the numbers have remained consistent over the last 13 yrs, despite the change in ammunition regulations. Could it be that ammunition is not the source? :confused:

    5. "California condor lead poisoning prevalence rates seem to exceed the rates of co-occurring scavenging raptors. "

    There's justification for a statewide ban. Why not expand it to nationwide?:fp

    6. "We used cases of paired blood?feather analyses (n = 10 pairs) and found that measured blood lead levels underestimate the estimated blood lead level at the peak of exposure by a range of 1.4- to 14.4-fold (geometric mean = 4.3-fold, SE = 1.3) "
    Yeah that or you were WRONG in your estimates and clearly don't fully understand the metabolism of Pb in these birds.

    7. " the principle source of lead exposure to condors is believed to be the ingestion of lead ammunition fragments embedded within carcasses of animals shot with lead ammunition (7). This belief is supported by circumstantial evidence implicating lead ammunition as the primary source of condor lead poisonings "

    It's not good enough in a court of law but it's good enough for science.

    8. "there have been six cases where a lead-containing metal fragment (or in one case, buckshot) was recovered from a lead-poisoned bird or a condor was observed feeding on a carcass that had been shot with lead-based ammunition. In all six of these cases, isotopic analysis showed that the fragments/ammunition and condor blood had highly similar (difference ≤ 0.22%) lead isotope ratios (207Pb/206Pb) "

    6 cases is good enough for me. All-out lead ban!! This must be the source!:fp

    9. "In a unique case where a few condors were identified with lead poisoning coincident with observed roosting on or in the vicinity of an inactive fire lookout tower with deteriorating lead-based paint, the blood 207Pb/206Pb ratio of the lead-poisoned birds (n = 5) matched the 207Pb/206Pb ratio of lead-based paint collected from the fire lookout tower, strongly implicating the lead-based paint as the source of lead poisoning."

    Where's the call for a ban on fire lookout towers?

    10. "Fourteen condors (∼13% of free-flying birds) had a blood 207Pb/206Pb ratio that could not be explained by the background or lead-based ammunition isotope ratios, with the lead source for five of these birds most likely attributable to lead-based paint "

    Hmm. We better outlaw paint as well.


    11. "if restrictions were in place that resulted in only 1% of carcasses containing lead, the annual probability that a condor would feed on one or more contaminated carcasses would only be reduced to 31?53% "

    Now there's a solution for you.

    12. " if only 0.5% of carcasses are contaminated with lead, the probability that, over 10 y, a condor will feed on a contaminated carcass is still 85?98%."

    Even better!

    13. "These results are especially pertinent given recent regulatory efforts in California to mitigate the lead exposure hazard to California condors by partial bans of lead ammunition use in condor habitat (39, 40). Although these regulations have been in place for only a few years, we looked for evidence that they had impacted the prevalence of lead poisoning in California condors. We compared blood lead levels in birds in 2006?2007 (preban) with levels in 2009?2010 (postban) and found no indication that blood lead levels had declined in 2009?2010 compared with 2006?2007 (Fig. 2A and Fig. S5A), suggesting that, at least thus far, the regulations to help reduce lead exposure in condors have not been effective."

    Well, at least they admit it.
    :grvn

    Great study once again. I didn't even get into the statistical analysis and data collection. I'm sure it's just as valid.

    Next!
     
  2. dukhuntnfool

    dukhuntnfool Elite Refuge Member

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    For me its pretty simple, there is no debate. Copper vs Lead bullets (hunting) . Do you want to debate those facts ? Just as is in shot gun shells ! Maybe some of you hard liners and your generation, should reflect on what you have done or not done. What the future holds for the next generations. You look at the instances of CANCER alone, in younger population (under 45) its alarming to me. We have poisoned our environment and everyone looks to point the finger in a different direction. For me personally I have a clear consciences of responsibility. I prefer to error on the cautious side. I want to be certain that my generation truly attempted to improve on our actions and responsibility . By our efforts and/or sacrifice we left things better then we received them for our children and grandchildren generations benefit . :reader:mad:
     
  3. Luigi Daniele

    Luigi Daniele Elite Refuge Member

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    Cancer in that population is caused by processed foods.
     
  4. dukhuntnfool

    dukhuntnfool Elite Refuge Member

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    Where is your science !!! :dv
     
  5. Green is Gold

    Green is Gold Elite Refuge Member

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    Well, at least the last part of your username is accurate.:clap
     
  6. blackdog58

    blackdog58 Elite Refuge Member

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    That is sir, a real piece of work.
     

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