Is is okay to let your old hunting dog starve to death when it's no longer useful?

Discussion in 'World News / Current Events Forum' started by Tom Phillips*, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. A5Mag12

    A5Mag12 Elite Refuge Member

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    You people need to get your facts strait. The settlement was for 1 million dollars total. $700,000.00 for the care and treatment of Terri and $300,000.00 for Micheal for the loss of a loved one. Her part could not be spent on anything but her. Much of it was spent on treatment and therapy trying to improve her condition. Treatment that was stopped only when the medical professionals convinced Micheal that it was hopeless and that there was nothing that could be done for her. That's when he accepted reality and decided to see that her wishes be granted. They were 25 year old kids when this happened, they as with most people at that age did not have any large life insurance policies. The money that was awarded to him was spent on his tuition to become a nurse and for every day living expense while he juggled school and spending most of his time with her at the hospital. The rest has long been spent plus much more that he could have had having to fight to give his wife the only thing left that he could give her. Her wish to not be left a shell kept alive only by the tubes running in and out of her body serving no purpose other than to fuel the machine that was her shrine while here on earth.

    Y'all spout anecdotal evidence from so called care givers that only worked at the hospice for one week. One week out of 15 years of this poor souls life. Yet you totally ignore statements from long term staff members attesting to the fact that they heard the girls father threaten to make the boy's life a living hell if he didn't give him a large part of the monetary settlement. Stating that her husband spent more time by her side than her blood relations put together. That they seen the love in his eyes and the utter devastation in his heart when he realized that there was no hope that she would ever get any better. But I guess that is to be expected from you, you want to pick and choose what you believe from this tragic story just like you pick and choose from the bible the parts that support your narrow minded view on life while you ignore the the truth in the bible that shows what a hypocrite and sinner that you truly are.
     
  2. Tom Phillips*

    Tom Phillips* Elite Refuge Member

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    What You Need to Know about Terri Schiavo
    March 7, 2005

    by Carrie Gordon Earll

    Terri Schiavo's fight for life has been widely publicized in the media but do you know the facts?
    Terri Schindler Schiavo is a 41-year old disabled Florida woman at the center of an on-going legal despite between her estranged husband, Michael, and her parents.

    In 1990 at 26-years of age, Terri collapsed in her home when her heart temporarily stopped, cutting off oxygen to her brain and leaving her severely brain damaged.

    Terri is not dying or terminally ill; she is not brain-dead or in a coma. She is an otherwise healthy mentally disabled woman. The diagnosis that she is in a “vegetative state” is disputed by many medical experts, including neurologists. Some neurologists believe it’s possible that Terri is in a “minimally conscious state” (MCS)— a neurological diagnostic criteria first defined in 2002. 1 Researchers are beginning to test this criteria against that of “persistent vegetative state” (PVS) with other patients. 2

    Terri breathes on her own without the aid of a ventilator. Her only dependency is on a feeding tube into her stomach for liquids and nourishment. 3 She swallows her own saliva, a fact that leads some experts in speech pathology to believe that with sufficient time and therapy, she could regain her ability to swallow fluids by mouth. 4 As recently as 1997, nursing staff who cared for Terri testified that she could swallow fluids and Jello-O, follow people with her eyes and even speak. 5

    An attorney for Terri’s parents, Barbara Weller, has posted narratives on the Internet describing her recent visits with Terri. During these visits, Weller witnessed purposeful interaction between Terri, her parents and other visitors. 6

    At the time of her collapse, Terri did not have a written advance medical directive. Since her disability, medical decisions have been made by her husband, Michael Schiavo.

    Michael Schiavo won a medical malpractice case on Terri's behalf in 1992, pledging to use the money for Terri’s rehabilitation and care for the rest of her natural life. 7 The court awarded more than $1 million: $300,000 directly to Michael for his loss and additionally, more than $700,000 for Terri’s care. 8 Terri’s parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, claim that prior to the settlement a neurologist recommended progressive therapy for Terri and that Michael agreed to provide such therapy, only to deny it and confine Terri to a nursing home after receiving the jury award. 9

    It was after the settlement that Michael first claimed that Terri had previously stated that she didn’t want to be kept alive by artificial means — a statement he never mentioned during the malpractice trial. 10

    As guardian, Michael Schiavo controls the $700,000-plus trust fund awarded for Terri’s care. 11 As of fall of 2003, Michael Schiavo’s attorneys reported that the trust fund was down to $50,000, with more than $430,000 going to “pay for court costs associated with her husband’s legal battle to remove his wife’s feeding tube.” 12 Meanwhile, Medicaid helps to pay Terri’s $5,000-a-month nursing costs at a hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida. 13

    Since 1995, Michael Schiavo has lived with a girlfriend, Jodi Centonze, with whom he has two children. 14 Michael remains legally married to Terri, as well as her guardian.

    In 1998, Michael Schiavo petitioned the court to have Terri’s feeding tube removed.

    Terri’s parents have offered to take care of Terri at their own expense, allowing Michael to keep all money remaining in the trust fund. To date, Michael Schiavo has refused, insisting that Terri die from dehydration.

    Florida Sixth Judicial Circuit Judge George Greer has set Friday, March 18 at 1:00 p.m. EST as “date and time” certain to remove Terri’s feeding tube — an act that will cause the painful death of an otherwise healthy disabled person whose body processes and benefits from the nutrients and fluids she receives daily.



    TIMELINE: 15

    On February 25, 1990, 26-year old Terri Schindler Schiavo collapsed in her home when her heart temporarily stopped, cutting off oxygen to her brain and leaving her severely brain injured.

    In November 1992, her husband, Michael, won a medical malpractice lawsuit after claiming that doctors failed to diagnose the chemical imbalance that caused the heart attack. The court awarded approximately $1 million in damages with $300,000 to Michael for his loss and another $700,000 to Michael for Terri’s guardianship and care.

    In July 1993, Terri’s parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, petition the court to have Michael removed as Terri’s guardian — a request that is denied in August 2001.

    In May 1998, Michael Schiavo petitions the court to have Terri’s feeding tube removed, claiming that Terri told him that she did not want life-sustaining intervention in the event of her incapacitation.

    In February 2000, Florida Circuit Judge George W. Greer rules that the feeding tube can be removed.

    After several court appeals, it is removed on April 24, 2001. Two days later, Florida Circuit Judge Frank Quesada orders doctors to reinsert Terri’s feeding tube.

    In October, 2001, the Florida 2nd District Court of Appeals indefinitely delays the removal of Terri’s feeding tube pending the examination of Terri by five physicians: two selected by Michael, two by the Schindler’s and one by the court. The two doctors selected by Terri’s parents tell the court that she can recover; the remaining three stated that she is in a vegetative state with no hope of recovery. The following month, Judge Greer again orders the feeding tube to be removed again. More court appeals follow.

    On October 15, 2003, Terri’s feeding tube is removed for a second time.

    October 20-21, 2003: the Florida State Legislature passed legislation (dubbed “Terri’s Law”) allowing Governor Jeb Bush to intervene, ordering the reinsertion of Terri’s feeding tube — six days after it was removed.

    May 6, 2004 — January 24, 2005: Various courts, including the Florida Supreme Court, strike down “Terri’s Law” as unconstitutional; the U.S. Supreme Court refuses to hear the case.

    March 2005: Members of the U.S. Congress and the Florida State Legislature introduce legislation to intervene on behalf of Terri and other medically vulnerable patients.





    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 Affidavit of Neurologist Beatrice C. Engstrand, M.D., March 3, 2005; Affidavit of Neurologist Jacob Green, M.D., February 22, 2005; Affidavit of Neurologist Lawrence Huntoon, M.D., March 3, 2005. Affidavits may be accessed on-line at www.terrisfight.org
    2 J.T. Giacino, et al., “The minimally conscious state: Definition and diagnostic criteria,” Neurology, February 2002; 58: 349-353; Melanie Boly, et al., “Auditory Processing in Severely Brain Injured Patients,” Archives of Neurology, February 2004, 61:233-238.
    3Abby Goodnough, “Governor of Florida orders woman fed in right-to-die case,” The New York Times, October 22, 2003.
    4Affidavit of Speech Language Pathologist Sarah Green Mele, July 25, 2003; Affidavit of Carolyn Heron, M.D., March 3, 2005; Affidavit of Neurologist Beatrice C. Engstrand, M.D., March 3, 2005; Affidavit of Speech and Language Pathologist Jill Joyce, PhD, March 3, 2005. Some affidavits may be accessed on-line at www.terrisfight.org
    5Affidavits of Certified Nursing Assistant Heidi Law, September 1, 2003; Registered Nurse Carla Sauer Iyer, September 1, 2003.
    6Narrative by Barbara Weller on visit with Terri December 24, 2004, accessed on March 1, 2005 at www.terrisfight.org/press/BJWnarrative.html; Narrative by Barbara Weller on visit with Terri February 24, 2005, accessed on February 25, 2005 at www.alliancealert.org/2005/20050225.htm
    7Vickie Chachere, “Michael Schiavo says money, activists motivate in-laws,” Associated Press, October 28, 2003.
    8Patrick Kampert, “Parents or husband: Who decides?; Courts to choose victor in battle over woman’s life,” Chicago Tribune, October 12, 2003.
    9Interview with Robert and Mary Schindler, Larry King Live, September 27, 2004.
    10Kampert, Associated Press.
    11Hugo Kugiya, “Decision for Death; Florida woman’s feeding tube pulled after court okays action, Newsday, October 16, 2003.
    12William R. Levesque, “Schiavo’s husband says he’ll fight back,” St. Petersburg Times, October 24, 2003; Chris Gray, “Both sides in Schiavo fight point to control of money,” Philadelphia Inquirer, October 29, 2003.
    13Mary McFachlin, “Schiavo case a growing legal, moral morass,” Palm Beach Post, October 26, 2003; Levesque, St. Petersburg Times.
    14Rich McKay and Maya Bell, “How to deal with Terri Schiavo’s tragedy splits family,” Orlando Sentinel, October 26, 2003; Warren Richey, “Can state intervene in medical decisions?” Christian Science Monitor, August 3, 2004.
    15With assistance from “Key Dates in the life of Terri Schiavo,” Associated Press, January 24, 2005.
     
  3. win4win

    win4win Elite Refuge Member

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    Carrie Gordon Earll, M.A., serves as the bioethics analyst in the Public Policy Division of Focus on the Family. Her areas of research include human cloning, stem cell research, abortion, euthanasia, and end-of-life medical decisions.

    As a media spokesperson for Focus on the Family, Carrie has been interviewed by hundreds of print and broadcast media outlets, including National Public Radio, The New York Times, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, and The Los Angeles Times. Prior to joining Focus on the Family, Carrie was an award-winning journalist working as a television news reporter and anchor in Alabama and Florida.

    Carrie is a frequent contributor to Focus on the Family publications and guest on ministry radio programs. Her research on euthanasia, published in "Prescribing Death: Euthanasia Exposed," has been distributed internationally. She writes extensively on bioethical issues for the ministry, including regular postings for Focus' Public Policy web site, CitizenLink.org.

    Carrie is a Fellow with The Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity in Chicago and a member of the American Society for Bioethics and Humanities. She holds a Master of Arts in Bioethics at Trinity International University in Chicago.

    In her home community of Colorado Springs, Carrie is active in medical ethics through her roles as secretary and board member of the Pikes Peak Forum for Health Care Ethics and as a member of the Memorial Hospital Ethics Committee.

    Carrie is married to Steve Earll, a psychotherapist in private practice. The Earll's have two daughters and attend Faith Evangelical Covenant Church, where Steve is an elder.
     
  4. Tom Phillips*

    Tom Phillips* Elite Refuge Member

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    Cool. Could you do a biography and a curriculum vitae on these too?

    1 Affidavit of Neurologist Beatrice C. Engstrand, M.D., March 3, 2005; Affidavit of Neurologist Jacob Green, M.D., February 22, 2005; Affidavit of Neurologist Lawrence Huntoon, M.D., March 3, 2005. Affidavits may be accessed on-line at www.terrisfight.org
    2 J.T. Giacino, et al., “The minimally conscious state: Definition and diagnostic criteria,” Neurology, February 2002; 58: 349-353; Melanie Boly, et al., “Auditory Processing in Severely Brain Injured Patients,” Archives of Neurology, February 2004, 61:233-238.
    3Abby Goodnough, “Governor of Florida orders woman fed in right-to-die case,” The New York Times, October 22, 2003.
    4Affidavit of Speech Language Pathologist Sarah Green Mele, July 25, 2003; Affidavit of Carolyn Heron, M.D., March 3, 2005; Affidavit of Neurologist Beatrice C. Engstrand, M.D., March 3, 2005; Affidavit of Speech and Language Pathologist Jill Joyce, PhD, March 3, 2005. Some affidavits may be accessed on-line at www.terrisfight.org
    5Affidavits of Certified Nursing Assistant Heidi Law, September 1, 2003; Registered Nurse Carla Sauer Iyer, September 1, 2003.
    6Narrative by Barbara Weller on visit with Terri December 24, 2004, accessed on March 1, 2005 at www.terrisfight.org/press/BJWnarrative.html; Narrative by Barbara Weller on visit with Terri February 24, 2005, accessed on February 25, 2005 at www.alliancealert.org/2005/20050225.htm
    7Vickie Chachere, “Michael Schiavo says money, activists motivate in-laws,” Associated Press, October 28, 2003.
    8Patrick Kampert, “Parents or husband: Who decides?; Courts to choose victor in battle over woman’s life,” Chicago Tribune, October 12, 2003.
    9Interview with Robert and Mary Schindler, Larry King Live, September 27, 2004.
    10Kampert, Associated Press.
    11Hugo Kugiya, “Decision for Death; Florida woman’s feeding tube pulled after court okays action, Newsday, October 16, 2003.
    12William R. Levesque, “Schiavo’s husband says he’ll fight back,” St. Petersburg Times, October 24, 2003; Chris Gray, “Both sides in Schiavo fight point to control of money,” Philadelphia Inquirer, October 29, 2003.
    13Mary McFachlin, “Schiavo case a growing legal, moral morass,” Palm Beach Post, October 26, 2003; Levesque, St. Petersburg Times.
    14Rich McKay and Maya Bell, “How to deal with Terri Schiavo’s tragedy splits family,” Orlando Sentinel, October 26, 2003; Warren Richey, “Can state intervene in medical decisions?” Christian Science Monitor, August 3, 2004.
    15With assistance from “Key Dates in the life of Terri Schiavo,” Associated Press, January 24, 2005.
     
  5. win4win

    win4win Elite Refuge Member

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    Sure could. ;)
     
  6. A5Mag12

    A5Mag12 Elite Refuge Member

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    He could have brought her home or taken her anywhere he wanted, to a place unknown to any one but him and let her pass at any time and no one would have said any thing about it. He could have found any number of Doctors or nurses that would have medicated her to death at any time. He would not have had to spend any money on legal fees. Kind of blows the notion that he is in this for the money.

    For ever one of your experts with an agenda that says she can be healed there have been dozens of neutral experts that rebuke them.

    In spite of all the do good idiots this poor woman is finally going to be allowed to continue into the next phase of life. There is an after life or if you will next life. She, Terri is not dieing, only the body is dieing. God is calling for her and people like you are standing in her way. Why? Is it that deep in your heart you don't believe? Are you so afraid that you will not be allowed to go into the next life that you don't want to see any one go? There is a better place waiting for her if you simpletons would just get out of her way.
     
  7. FroMan

    FroMan Senior Refuge Member

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    The thing is...I have no doubt in my mind that she could get up out of that bed 100% the way she was 15 years ago tomorrow, but I also believe that death is the ultimate healing from pain, and from this world.

    What if God is wanting her to be with him, and we're keeping her here?

    I don't really consider the state Terri is in to be "living" or a "life" at all, other then the fact that she still has a few vital signs left.
     
  8. BrownDrake

    BrownDrake Elite Refuge Member

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    Or what if God is teating us and we as a society are failing? It goes both ways except if he wanted her at any time past, she would be dead.
     
  9. pamungus

    pamungus Elite Refuge Member

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    god forbid my dog ever gets to this point but if dukers does i would put a bullet in his head to end his suffering before i would let my ex put him through all of this for he has been to good a friend to allow him to suffer.
     
  10. mottler

    mottler Elite Refuge Member

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    That is the real story from Florida.
     

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