June 21:Stakeholder Meeting on Proposed Moccassin Island Changes

Discussion in 'Florida Flyway Forum' started by Blueyed-goof, May 23, 2012.

  1. godvlman

    godvlman Refuge Member

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    Filter... I am going to disagree to a point... however it does prove the point that not all duck hunters are stupid, and dont know whats good for them!!!

    This example shown my CJ is just a piece to what some of us have been asking for since the inception of this "plan"... and that is data and documentation that proves that this parcel should be restricted or not restricted from 7 days to 3 days.

    It should not be up to those that oppose the restrictions to prove the area doesnt need to restricted. Especially since the property is not restricted now and is overseen by FFWCC and the district, I would only seem to hope that they are looking after our best interest, and I think they have been doing a pretty good job up to this point.

    Everyone has there personal "observations" which causes them to form opinions and locals observations should play an important part in the puzzle. Keeping in mind that like opinions locals observations will vary in many different ways... everyone should be able to express both however rules and laws should not be written off of them.

    Every seasoned waterfowler knows that a 3 day a week marsh holding birds will certainly be better than a marsh hunted 7 days a week, I dont think one person since the inception of the plan has disagreed on that. If you do not have the data and proper information/documentation, from the professionals, that proves your point or sells the plan you are going to meet restistance. Especially when the marsh you are trying to restrict is currently open 7 days a week!! All I have seen up to this date from those who want to impose restrictions are personal "observations"...

    I think if this plan would have been presented differenly, meaning more "observations" from different users were included, a stakeholder group gathering data and pertinent information gathered from FWCC and the district this plan could have made for what some call a better "quality" hunt. I personally dont think you would see such stringent restictions applied to the area as the out come but who knows? that is just my opinion!!!

    It is my opinion that if this property is restricted you will have a problem with overcrowding... some feel that is just my opinion, they are right because I have no documentation nor the proper information to PROVE it. In the same sense how some say that is just my opinion and I have no proof, they also have to understand that there personal observations are along the same lines and they really dont have any proof when it comes down to resticting a marsh!!!
     
  2. Capt Jeff Kraynik

    Capt Jeff Kraynik Elite Refuge Member

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    The property is already restricted:


    At the ramp or parking area, you must unload your boat or bike from your vehicle.

    Then you must take (30) thirty minute boat ride in from north or a (30) thirty minute bike ride in from the south.

    Then, you must either, paddle, walk or wade into the property.

    Then you must set up your rig & blind.

    Then, you must paddle, walk or wade out of the property.

    Then you take a (30) thirty minute boat ride to the north or a (30) thirty minute bike ride in to the south.

    Then once back at the ramp or parking area, you must load your boat or bike back onto your vehicle.


    Sounds pretty damm restricted to me!!!
     
  3. godvlman

    godvlman Refuge Member

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    I understand... me using the term resticted was meant towards the days being restricted... but since you brought up all of these restrictions that play a part in this marsh.... These restrictions you mention... were they just imposed and written into the rules or did a stakeholder group play a part of it?
     
  4. Capt Jeff Kraynik

    Capt Jeff Kraynik Elite Refuge Member

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    I was on the initial tour for DU as MARSH chair & agreed to & supported no motorized boats & walk-in only.

    If I remember correctly, the only dissenting vote @ the WRAC was the Brevard County Airboat Association who was hoping for access into the property.

    I caught alot of heat for not supporting a/b's (being a member of the club @ the time) but felt it was a good choice for this property.

    But to answer your question, yes after the initial tour it was spoken about & approved @ the WRAC.

    This in part is why there was so few of us that first year, the remoteness & access put alot of people off.

    But when the 20 somethings found the place, us older guys had to work alittle harder for our bird.:z

    I believe Pat has already confirmed this statement on the FS forum about competing with the 20 somethings.
     
  5. godvlman

    godvlman Refuge Member

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    Thanks... I was told other stakeholders had input, wasnt sure if everything went thru the WRAC at that time..
     
  6. Capt Jeff Kraynik

    Capt Jeff Kraynik Elite Refuge Member

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    Yes, it was discussed @ WRAC!!!
     
  7. mottler

    mottler Elite Refuge Member

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    CJ do I need to dig up the posts where you guys initially were after a reduced schedule and not 7 days? I wish you would have stuck with that back then and all this would never have happened. Those restrictions you call them slow no one down. The STA's have the same restrictions right except you have to drive many miles to get to them. Does that slow anyone down? Those restrictions are not enough for an effective management plan. As for calling for studies and data John there is plenty of that done just look it up in fact our leading state biologists and waterfowl managers have sent me some. Call them and ask them if you want it. Anti groups use this tactic to keep us from opening new area's and it's all Bacon Sandwich. If we all agree that it will keep ducks on the property and those birds will help the surrounding 7 day hunted property I don't see why the resistance. It should be a slam dunk of good management, Steve Rockwoods words not mine. He favors the plan are you going to say his opinion is also based on just personal observations?
     
  8. Capt Jeff Kraynik

    Capt Jeff Kraynik Elite Refuge Member

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    Yes, I was initially in favor of reduced days after the initial tour over (7) seven years ago.

    I believe John Monti already dug up those posts on UWF so they should be easy to find.

    FWC felt that it was an enforcement nightmare to have different user groups with different sets of rules, just like the "Dan Plan" is currently proposing.

    After hunting a season or (2) two, you will see on the same thread that I changed my opinion & felt the current schedule worked!!!

    I've never denied that I changed my mind after using the property because I believed & still do that the property can handle the hunters due to its remoteness & "walk-in" only access.

    As far as Steve Rockwood, I have nothing but respect for his professional opinions.

    But as far as I have been advised the FWC Waterfowl Section is taking the stance that the "Dan Plan" will only improve the "hunters experience" & that the Federal Waterfowl Guidelines are in place to set seasons dates & bag limits.

    Again, this is an unmanaged piece of property with only bi-yearly burning & bush hogging during drought conditions like he experienced during the 2010-2011 season.


    Pat,

    I grew up with limited hunt days on numerous state run properties in Ohio & it was a over-crowding nightmare. Waterfowlers migrated like the ducks, from one property to another depending on which days were open.

    Even though I see where the "Dan Plan" attempts to "spread out" the hunters by having the hunt days fall on the same days as MINWR & Fellsmere Farms, bottom line the hunters will go where the ducks are.

    You & Joe are prime examples of migrating hunters & in no way is that meant as a dig.:tu

    The season MOC was dry, you guys spent your season @ TMG & Fellsmere & barely hunted MOC due to it being "dry."

    I will tell you we would not be here if the "Dan Plan" wanted a noon closure like many public areas in Arkansas, Miss, & Louisianna.

    If the noon closures work in areas like Bayou Meto & Delta NWR, it would work here w/o "restricting" access on a public piece of marsh from (7) seven days a week down to (3) three days a week.

    Instead of a (60%) sixty percent closure, it would (100%) one hundred percent accessible!!!:tu

    I feel the "Dan Plan" is flawed & won't work because the deer, hog, snipe & rabbit hunters will continue to use the property on the days off, disturbing the ducks that you claim can't handle the pressure.

    The birds have plenty of safe havens & roosting areas outside MOC like the Viera Wetlands, Duda, & the Mormans.

    I have that study also!!!

    Along with the surrounding public marsh, there is also many area "inaccessible" inside MOC that hunters cannot get to.

    Waterfowl are migratory so they move around, alot.

    Are wintering waterfowl are dependant on cold winters up north, which we did not get this season.

    Many of our northern cousins didn't have the greenheads come down till (3) three days before the season closed & were still shooting teal up till that time.

    I will say it again:

    "It's not your backyard, it's not my backyard, it's everyones playground!!!" & locals trying to "retrict" public property by (60%) sixty percent is just wrong.

    Ultimately, The final decision on this issue will be up to SJRWMD.:amen
     
  9. mottler

    mottler Elite Refuge Member

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    Yes hopefully they will listen the the state biologists.
     
  10. mottler

    mottler Elite Refuge Member

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    Sorry I didn't do a better job of answering on a quoted post I don't really know how to do it so it reads correctly.
     

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