Lead shot ban for dove hunting

Discussion in 'Hunters Rights Forum' started by lanthanide, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. lanthanide

    lanthanide Elite Refuge Member

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    As a follow up to the thread below, I did some digging. It seems there is a real push for this. I found several 'lead ban' sights and they all speak of misinformation and the use of false implications for swaying the opinion of hunters on this topic. Specifically noting that 2/3 of all dove hunters are against a ban so selling it on it's merits alone is too much of a battle. They all seem somewhat organized and are in the process of gathering the needed political pull to make a real thrust at this goal.

    The thread below was getting off topic a bit so I wanted to re-direct.

    Remember...the lead shot ban on ducks had nothing to do with ducks. They sold the idea on the back of the bald eagle.

    They then moved to selling steel shot for everything by calling out hunters as 'unethical' or not 'supporting the environment or resource' if they didn't march in step with every lead ban. Acting all "holier than thou" because you support steel for everything...but I choose to shoot lead on my private land hunts serves NONE OF US. It creates conflict, debate, and divides us.

    You guys calling out others for not supporting a full ban on lead are just as much part of the problem. There are sources calling out power line collisions as nearly equal to hunting as far as dove mortality. I don't know if that is really all true, but I do know that 70 percent of the dove population will die each year no matter what. About 70-80% of this mortality has nothing to do with shotguns...natural causes folks. Only about 15-20 percent is from hunting.

    Nest failures have the biggest affect on the dove populations. They talk about the frequency of dove nesting but only 1 in 4 nests fledges any young. Doves build pizz-poor nests that are easily affected by spring storms. Every thing I've read points to this as the largest factor affecting the annual nesting failures.

    Lastly ask yourself "why" are they going after doves in this new 'all-steel' fight/agenda? Why not pheasants and partridge where I live in Iowa? The answer is pretty simply. You gotta fight to impose your anti-hunting agenda state by state. That makes the one state under siege feel singled out and more apt to put up a fight. Plus...it's time consuming to fight one state at a time and you will never will in all of them. BUT...you target a migratory species and you can cut deep into nearly all states with one swing of a political sword. More bang for the buck and everyone is subject to the same pain. When pain is shared, people are less likely to fight back. After all...we're all in the same boat then...right? :rolleyes:

    This has nothing to do with doves. It's all about using a migratory species to limit land access, further restrict hunting, and to discourage hunting as a whole on a national basis.

    Nothing else.
     
  2. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    Good post.
     
  3. mmayes

    mmayes Diver Forum Mod Moderator

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    Thank You for posting. Good Post

    Mayes
     
  4. marsh fox

    marsh fox Banned

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    Lead is toxic period end of debate, it will go it can do no other. Is it not better to change our selves rther than be forced into this.
     
  5. hartfish

    hartfish Elite Refuge Member

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    Can you provide a link please?
     
  6. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    Like most toxic things, it is only dangerous if it is ingested. So far no one has been able to show me where lead shot ingestion has caused an issue for people or for a population of animals. I have things all over the house, and see things everywhere I go that are more toxic than lead.

    As to the last, lead shot will go away when the law makes it happen. At that point it won't matter to the general public who supported the change. Even if hunters rise up and force a change in the law, the general public will never know about it because the media will not report it.

    No good will come from a nationwide ban on lead shot. It will be a BIG nail in the coffin of sport shooting and hunting in the US. It certainly won't be the final nail, but it will bring about a decline in casual shooters and hunters. When the numbers of casual gun folk are lost, what political pull we have goes with them.
     
  7. lanthanide

    lanthanide Elite Refuge Member

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    hartfish,

    This was one of the first ones specifically about using misinformation:

    http://www.huntfortruth.org/anti-le...actics-to-advance-lead-ammunition-ban-agenda/


    I read several others...how many would you like? This one above specifically calls out the debunking of lead poisoning by the consumption of game taken with lead shot an how lead shot is absorbed in the body. As a chemical engineer I always find it funny how people believe that lead is simply jumping into our bodies at every turn. The solubility of lead in a normal (neutral) pH solution is extremely low in reality. Lead is a concern but ammo is not the main source of exposure for anyone in daily life.

    Hence my position.


    And bill above is echoing my position...a ban has nothing to do with the environment or public health. The goal is the destruction of the shooting sports by degrading/eroding the ranks of sportsmen until we are no longer a viable political voice. At that point we'll be powerless. All shooting will end.

    And in the name of what?....
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  8. hartfish

    hartfish Elite Refuge Member

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  9. Steel3's

    Steel3's Elite Refuge Member

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    I stopped reading right there, because THAT is misinformation.

    The decision to ban lead-shot NATIONWIDE was based on a court ruling hinging on the Endangered Species Act and risk to bald eagles, but lead shot had been banned in a number of locations prior to that based on lead-poisoning in ducks. The controversy was always about ducks, it centered on ducks, it was almost all about ducks. Even the eagles supposedly at risk were so from eating ducks.

    So let's not attack misinformation with misinformation.
     
  10. hopkins11

    hopkins11 Senior Refuge Member

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    This is broader reaching than our little "special interest" group:

    http://www.vtfishandwildlife.com/Ge...m?section=WHERE HAVE LEAD SINKERS BEEN BANNED

    WHERE HAVE LEAD SINKERS BEEN BANNED?
    ? Great Britain banned the use of lead sinkers in 1987.
    ? In Canada, it is illegal to use lead sinkers and jigs in national parks.
    ? The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is currently considering banning the use of lead sinkers and jigs on national wildlife refuges where loons and Trumpeter swans breed.
    ? Lead sinker use is banned in three national refuges and Yellowstone National Park in the United States.
    ? Maine banned the sale of lead sinkers and jigs less than one oz.
    ? New York banned the sale of lead sinkers less than one oz.
    ? New Hampshire passed a ban on the use of lead sinkers and jigs less than one oz. and less than one inch.
    ? As of 2006, a ban on the sale of lead sinkers and jigs will also be put into effect in New Hampshire.
     

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