Lead shot ban for dove hunting

Discussion in 'Hunters Rights Forum' started by lanthanide, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    Evidently the studies I keep asking for don't exist. All I hear is "lead is toxic." To them I say, so is asphalt. You don't have to use tar/asphalt to shingle your roof or pave your drive or public roadways. Every time you use that stuff you are needlessly introducing a toxin into the ecosystem that is a known killer of birds, mammals and people.
     
  2. lanthanide

    lanthanide Elite Refuge Member

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    To Steel 3's and any other naysayers...

    If you read the original Dept. of Interior report from the 70's (and supporting papers) you'll find you're incorrect. The supporting addendums reference lead shot poisoning studies conducted as early as the 1920's and 30's. One study was conducted on Reelfoot Lake in Tn. over a particularly hard hunted area (if memory serves). It's not like lead shot wasn't on the radar for over half a century. Ducks died by the thousands every year even back then and no one called for a lead shot ban. So no...it was "all about the ducks" as Steel 3's placed such emphasis.

    The fact that "some" ducks died due to lead pellet consumption was not considered a hot topic. Even in the 70's it still wasn't of much debate. Discussed were the tons of shot already deposited. A lead ban wouldn't remove this accumulation. Sieving/reclamation proposals were played with as well as a great many other things. A lot of these went a long way to quell some of the pressure towards a lead ban. All that aside, it was not enough to fuel the needed public outcry.

    It wasn't until pictures of emaciated eagles and other birds of prey stricken with lead poisoning did the needed public pressure come to force the issue. The report even admitted that they couldn't be positive all lead poisoned raptors found were due to eating ducks wounded with lead pellets or ducks that died of lead poisoning. But some lead shot was found in enough eagles to get that nail in the coffin.

    The most ironic thing about that original report...if you care to read it Steel 3's...is that it never called for a complete ban of lead shot anywhere in the text. What it did call out were characteristics of areas that should be considered for steel shot only usage.

    These area were actually VERY specific....They needed to be of a certain water depth to allow ducks access to the shot...The bottom needed to be of specific "hardness" so the shot didn't sink into the muck...The area needed to be in a location that attracted large numbers of ducks each fall that likewise attracted large amounts of hunters each fall making the accumulation of lead shot significant enough to be an issue...and several other considerations.

    Had this report been followed to the letter we'd still be shooting lead over many waters and certainly in fields. And this is my main point...that some here still can't get through their heads. That point is: We've tried this before guys...we gave up lead for ALL duck hunting even though the data didn't support this. We rolled over and freely gave it up in the name of the environment and the resource. Did the anti's go away and leave us alone? Do you think they will if we give it up for doves?...or anything else?

    You shouldn't have to think too hard about that one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  3. JHerr

    JHerr Elite Refuge Member

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  4. lanthanide

    lanthanide Elite Refuge Member

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    Hmmmmmmm...how about that ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


    Steel 3's...any comment.


    Bueller?........Bueller?........Bueller?
     
  5. marsh fox

    marsh fox Banned

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    The above pro lead posts if thats the right term, acctualy strengthen the argument to ban lead accros the board.
    The pictures of eagles set the ball rolling then, and a ban was imposed, yet lead is still being pumped into the environment at large by suposedly rsponsible hunters. Lead poisoning is still taking place the video shows that in waterfowl in the uk i posted earlier, now if that same lead shot was fired from a gun 70 years ago or last week is not the point, sure its in the environment we cant do anything about that now but at least we can stop shooting it NOW.
    Why add to whats there in the environment at the moment, has not enough damage allready been done?
    At what point to say ok enough we must stop ?
    Lead is toxic we all agree on that if any tests exist or not is secondary doves have crops last time i checked and they could injest lead pellets in their environments, the size of pellets used in dove hunting would fit nicely the size of the bird and the bird will be there in the same environment where hunters are shooting this lead shot, so they will be exposed to it no doubt about that without any form of tests.
    No reson whatsoever to keep shooting lead other than i want to mentality.
    All the guff about it some how damaging the sport is unfounded , how could that ever be the case. We are still hunting be glad roll with the punches a little it wont hurt a half as bad as you guys are trying so hard to make out.
     
  6. Tuck31

    Tuck31 Elite Refuge Member

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    Yeah let's roll with the punches. No one needs those assault rifles and semi automatic firearms, or those cop killer bullets. Let's just give them up. Surely we can then go on in peace and keep our guns. :rolleyes: Same argument applies. Naive.
     
  7. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    Obviously some here are preservationists rather than conservationists. If I were concerned over the death of an individual bird, I would quit hunting. I am concerned with the health of a species. Surely with all the hate for lead out there, someone has attempted to find a species negatively impacted by lead. Isn't that the sort of thing scientists do? Isn't that the smoking gun which would end the debate?

    It doesn't exist. If it makes you feel better, shoot steel at everything and use an alternative to asphalt for your roof and driveway as I'm certain you don't want to needlessly introduce a toxin known to kill birds and animals into the ecosystem.

    Marsh Fox, I thought I read that you still shoot lead where it is legal. Why would you do such a thing while advocating it be outlawed in a country in which you have no intention of ever hunting. Troll much?
     
  8. lanthanide

    lanthanide Elite Refuge Member

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    Marsh Fox...again you're missing the point. Please read my posts and their true meaning. This is NOT a pro-lead issue...I am not 'pro-lead' hunter. But I also use lead.

    It's all about the erosion of our ability to pursue any/all hunting & shooting opportunities. As I said above...we gave up lead then for ducks and the anti's still come after us. If we give up lead now for doves...they will still come after us. Many fine old shooting clubs have been shut down. Many more will if steel is mandated for clays shooting. If they cannot legislate us out of hunting & shooting they will pursue all avenues at their disposal to make hunting too inconvenient or too expensive for the average person to enjoy.

    I don't want this to sound as bad as it seems but if you don't fight them every step of the way they will just run us down.

    If I really believed that switching to "all steel" would call off the anti-hunting crowd I'd do it today.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  9. AvianQuest

    AvianQuest Elite Refuge Member Flyway Manager

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    Not the same narrative.

    But we really shouldn't be forced to use nontoxic shot. It's a no brainer if you care about the resource and the quality of hunting left for your grandkids. Using nontoxic shot in no way keeps you from hunting.

    There's lots of shooting clubs now that ban using toxic shot for clays and it hasn't hurt business one bit...

    http://www.cooncreekhuntclub.com/

    In Australia, hunters could have voluntarily changed to nontoxic shot, but they refused which sent the question to the courts. Then the courts, using science based evidence, ruled against the use of toxic shot. Headstrong hunters defied the ruling which resulted in a total ban on duck hunting in several Australian states.

    As Forest Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does".
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  10. blinddog

    blinddog Elite Refuge Member

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    If YOU care about the resource YOU should stop hunting.

    See how that works...?

    As sportsmen, we accept that there is mortality. Ethically, we mitigate it as much as we can. Take ethical shots, eat what we kill, attempt to retrieve all wounded game, do conservation work/support conservation organizations - but in reality, being a sportsman means being a killer.

    So you are going to have to do a better job describing what you mean by "caring about the resource"...

    I can always do you one better and claim if you truly care about the resource you would not kill it. So get off your high horse...:fp
     

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