MB 23 Vanguard ?

Discussion in 'Mud Motors' started by rmk800, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Mud Doctor

    Mud Doctor Elite Refuge Member

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    I have got to ride in one of those skiffs. :tu Will they be around for the Florida Mud Fest.
     
  2. GMAC

    GMAC Senior Refuge Member

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    I must disagree and I'm pretty sure the retort is coming soon from the guys that built it.. :D
     
  3. drake1

    drake1 Refuge Member

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    The numbers on the motor are correct. That is the third 23HP that we got 30HP out of. The first two were with stock carbs. We got 32HP out of one with a 35HP carb but it was too fat. Good head work will get you 8Hp if done right. The intake was hogged out as well. As far as being contracted to build engines we are not under contract with anyone. There is no tuned exhaust being built neither, however I am building an exhaust for the 23HP Vanguards for everyone that runs one. Myself and Robert can only recall one 23HP being built for MB and that was back in 1999. Notice the date when that was done and when MB performance motors came out. Whose is coping whose idea? Never heard anything else from them until now after we are putting out performance kits. Hate that it came to this but it is what it is.

    Quoted by Mud Doctor

    The 32 horse 23 has cam, roller rockers, push rods, carb kit and tuned exhaust. (We had non of those parts in the engine. Head work and intake work was it.)

    When you buy a 23 MB you have many options for more power later on.

    On the 35 Van we have 10 levels of performnace.
    On the 23 we have 5.

    Level 1. - Tuned exhaust (not available til spring) (Is this the exhaust that I am building because it is not tuned).
    Level 2. - Level 1. with single carb kit.
    Level 3. - Tuned carb kit, new gov spring, roller rockers and tuned exhaust.
    Level 4. - Level 3 with cam and performance push rods.
    Level 5. - Level 4 with Pro Flo TM heads (Are these the heads that we built?)
     
  4. Mud Doctor

    Mud Doctor Elite Refuge Member

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    Again, you can't build 32 horse with heads and a single carb kit on this motor within the RPM range we requested. :tu

    If we could, it would run very close to a 35 stock vanguard on a 1851 test boat. I would love that, but it will never happen. :grvn

    This motor will produce 28 horse max at the RPM range I asked for.
     
  5. T-mac

    T-mac Elite Refuge Member

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    Lies to cover up the truth or truth to cover lies....which is it Glenn...good God you are a piece of work:z :z :z
     
  6. Mud Doctor

    Mud Doctor Elite Refuge Member

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    We have a contract with Robert to build this motor. We made an offer and he accepted. It would be nice if it was free, but it is not.

    The tuned exhaust scheduled for this spring is our twin exhaust. I asked Robert to work on a prototype single exhaust so we can release the carb kits. You confirmed this request this week.

    You don't build Pro Flo heads. That is Al's product.

    You have nothing to do with the Level schedule on this post. The motor Robert is building has not been tested or approved for our inventory. We contracted for a prototype to determine if Robert will build these motors for us. I told Robert what we were building with cam, roller rockers etc and gave him instructions to produce good power with less internal parts. I don't recall discussing this with you, ever. Just a muffler to get us by.

    Robert and I spoke the other day and I asked him to reduce the RPMs and that motor will not make 32 horse at 4400 to 4600 and he agreed. I didn't send a motor to you nor did I give you any instructions regarding its build. I sent this motor to Robert for a build and all my conversations regarding the recipe were with Robert.

    We were happy to hear 32 horse, but not happy with the RPM. I asked Robert to turn the test down to a lower RPM and give me the new test data. This motor when finished by Robert or someone else may or may not have cam and roller rocker options. We have them now with motors from Performance V Twins.

    Please don't be telling me or my customers that the motor I asked to be modified will produce 32 horse. Robert told me it got 32 and I told him to change the recipe RPM and retest. I was happy to report Robert's results, but I have hedged to make sure that was his report and not mine. When Robert completes the contract and sends me the motor, we will be the judge and determine if it produces the power we want. Briggs will Dyno the end results on their certified equipment when we get the final muffler emission certificate. This will help verify your dyno readings and will be good for everyone concerned including the customers that are buying your stated horsepower. Trust me, they will hold your feet to the fire on 32 horse.

    Robert never mentioned that you and he were partners. How long have you owned Crosby power? Should I have coordinated this with you? Are you suggesting Performance V Twins or MB copied Roberts single and twin carb kits and modded motors. Did Robert design the 23 we get from Al?

    I give Robert lots of credit for his work and was hopeful we could purchase motors from him this year. But if you are the new owner, I am confused.

    I think someone is filling your ear.
     
  7. GMAC

    GMAC Senior Refuge Member

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    Where's that train wreck smilie when a fella needs it?.. :z
     
  8. drake1

    drake1 Refuge Member

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    Myself and Robert are Extreme V-Twins in which you will be receiving the invoice. Put the motor on the dyno and lets see what she does. Judging by the post we have going back and forth I would not expect it to be good. The concept of mods on these engines is neither Extreme V-Twins concept of Performance V-Twins concept. I would say we owe it to the NHRA and NASCAR for there R&D on how to improve a combustion engine. We simply took the same concept and applied it to a 2 cylinder engine. Once again there is NO CONTRACT between Robert Silk, Mike Bingham or Extreme V-Twins to build engines for anybody. You asked me when my 23HP exhaust (which was already being built) would be ready to use so you could get your Mikuni kits out for that engine. You are not dealing with Crosby Lawn and Power on this but the company listed above. The only person that seems to be filling my ear is you.
     
  9. Mud Doctor

    Mud Doctor Elite Refuge Member

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    I will talk to Robert Monday and we will see where this goes from here.

    He is a nice person and good businessman. I agreed to send a motor, have it built to our standard, give us a quote and we will order a set number of motors with monthly delivery.

    Robert accepted the offer and we sent the product. He has been giving me reports and we have made good progress.

    Again, you were no part of this conversation, ever. Pretending to be part of this agreement is false and could mean Robert and I waisted our time.

    I edited this a couple times picking my words carefully. A lot is at stake here. This will be interesting.
     
  10. Pit Boss

    Pit Boss Oregon Moderator

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    Ouch,
     

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