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MD Proposed gun control legislation. ALL gun transfers must go through FFL

Discussion in 'Chesapeake Flyway Forum' started by The Other David, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. Scotty

    Scotty Elite Refuge Member

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    It's not a gun control debate- I would like to know exactly how this bill restricts your right to own a gun?
    I'm not trying to argue- I'm asking a serious question because I cannot see how it does.
    And, I guess your answer is that you don't mind felins getting guns through private sales- as long as you can still sell it?
     
  2. carolina girl

    carolina girl Elite Refuge Member

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    I guess you have to define the word "Felon". I know a few "felons" that for one reason or the other had some minor issues in the past. I would trust them with a firearm more so than some others with clean records.
     
  3. The Other David

    The Other David Elite Refuge Member

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    Scotty,
    This is a very complicated issue, and there are no sound-bite answers that are useful.

    How does this bill restrict your right to own a gun? Actually, it does not restrict your right to "own" a gun, as long as you already own it. What it does do is restrict the transferring of a gun, even to let a friend borrow it.

    Your comment "And, I guess your answer is that you don't mind felins getting guns through private sales- as long as you can still sell it?" is a bit insulting. You are assuming that felons are getting guns through private sales, and that felons would not get guns if private sales were required to go through an FFL. That is not how it happens. Felons buy and sell guns amongst themselves. These guns are usually initially obtained through thefts and by straw-man sales. Once they enter the black market they are lost to all monitoring.

    Maryland itself is an excellent example of how useless restrictions on private sales are. In addition to having the highest average income and education in the nation, and many social support systems, Maryland has among the strictest gun rules in the nation. No private transfer of handguns. License for handguns. Waiting period for handguns. No concealed carry for normal people, no open carry. Bans on "assault rifles".

    We can look to our neighbor to the south, Virginia. They have few gun regulations. Shall-issue concealed carry. No permit required for open carry. No registration of any private sales. AR15s are cash-and-carry.

    And yet Maryland usually has the 4th to 6th HIGHEST homicide rate in the nation.The homicide rate in Maryland is usually 50% to 80% HIGHER than in Virginia, which has few gun regulation. Given all the wonderful things Maryland has going for it, you would think that the homicide rates would not consistently be so high. And yet...
     
  4. The Other David

    The Other David Elite Refuge Member

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    Restrictions on private sales are largely unenforceable, especially private sales between persons who are most likely to commit crimes. The only people who will bother with them are the most law-abiding. It creates criminals of law-abiding Marylanders who may break an administrative rule by lending a shotgun for the rest of the season to their buddy whose shotgun is broken and can't be fixed till later.

    And even if 100% of long gun transfers were processed (and you know they will not), how much of a difference could it make?

    Well, long guns are rarely used in homicides. Rifles of all kinds (and the scary AR15s are but a subset of rifles) are used in about 3% of homicides. Same for shotguns, about 3%. What are the most common instruments in homicide? Number 1 is the handgun, and you probably know how useful Maryland's strict handgun laws are. Then comes knives, like you have in your kitchen. Then blunt instruments, like the hammer and baseball bat in your garage. Then hands and feet, like at the ends of your arms and legs. Then we get to rifles and shotguns. Bottom line: even if ALL long guns were to disappear, it would have a barely-measurable impact on homicide.

    There are about 300,000,000 guns in the US, and most of these cannot be traced to their current owners. There are enough guns in circulation to supply the criminal market until the end of time.

    If you do think that banning private transfers of long guns is a good idea, it would follow that you would also think the California approach to regulating ammunition sales is also a good idea. California requires a license ($50, I think), and requires all sales to be registered. No more ordering bulk shotgun shells from Rogers.

    After all, it might keep a felon from getting ammunition.

    Since you seem to be so concerned and supportive of this kind of legislation, just what impact do you think it would have on gun crime? Surely you must have some idea.
     
  5. Scotty

    Scotty Elite Refuge Member

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    So you have proof that felons don't buy guns from private sales- can you cite your source?

    I have no proof that they do, but as it is now- there is nothing that allows us to know exactly who we are selling to.

    I asked you a question and you did not answer it about felons obtaining a firearm. You gave me 1000 words that mean nothing because they do not answer the question.

    I never once said this was going to stop gun crime.

    But, as of now you have no clue who the man or woman is handing you money after answering an ad in the paper. None. At least this way, you will have to be held accountable for who you are selling to.

    As far as some felons being safer- well, unfortunately that doesn't matter and if you sell
    A gun Or lend a gun to a felon, you are breaking the law.

    What I believe this would stop is the off handed and unregulated sale of guns to people who really should not have them.
    Why is it that inside a store I have to fill out NICS paperwork to buy a gun, but outside I do not? Does that really make sense to you?
    Or are you in favor of just doing away with background checks altogether?

    See,this is more rhetoric made by people who stand to make money off of hysteria-
     
  6. The Other David

    The Other David Elite Refuge Member

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    Scotty, have a nice day. Be careful, it's cold and snowy out there.
     
  7. Scotty

    Scotty Elite Refuge Member

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    Thanks- I'll take that as a concession.
     
  8. Montauker

    Montauker Elite Refuge Member

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    Not disagreeing with Scotty, but the PSA for the day is that as a private seller you can choose to have any weapon you are selling done through an FFL. I would suggest this with anyone you do not know, especially folks on here :dv
     
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  9. Scotty

    Scotty Elite Refuge Member

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    Max- exactly. But, there is nothing that says you must.

    I do t think people realize this is a bill that could protect the buyer as well as a seller.

    How do you know at the present time that a gun you are buying from some guy you do not know is not stolen? Or was not used in the commitance of a crime?
    You don't.

    If you seriously think that all guns bought and sold in the US are legal- you are just plain ignorant.


    Say you buy a gun from an ad. You take it to the range, and a guy sees it and calls the cops because it looks like the one he had stolen. They come, and sure as shi t it's the gun. Now what? You have to prove that it wasnt you who stole it. That's easy right- you just call the guy up who sold it to you in the Walmart parking lot. He was a nice guy so it should be easy to track him down. Except that he used a fake ID, and a trac phone that has now been shut off, etc. you're screwed.

    Now you are either out the money you spent, or in jail awaiting trial, or both. Not counting lawyers fees etc.
    All because you felt entitled to circumvent a process that could have prevented this. Out of all
    Of the gun control laws, this is the only one I see that makes sense, but it doesn't help the NRA make money does it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  10. The Other David

    The Other David Elite Refuge Member

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    OK. You can have the last word on the matter.
     

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