NRA virus Wal-mart

Discussion in 'Hunters Rights Forum' started by Tank, Jul 6, 2002.

  1. Tank

    Tank Senior Refuge Member

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    To the other David;;; NRA and other gunrights groups, which questioned the legality of the unannounced policy shift and hinted that they might seek to organize a boycott.
    W/M executives, in an internal memorandum obtained by the Las Angeles Times, told store managers 5 weeks ago to stop selling firearms in cases in which authorities were not able to determine whether the would-be buyers should be banned from owning a weapon.
    Who can ya trust? I hope to see them filing bank o the same as K-Mart had to do.
    This really knocks the crap out of their GOOD OLD BOY image, that they try to push.
    As you can tell from the Shooting and Reloading forum, that I'm not real happy with the store. But I did buy a 390 from them a few months ago because it was a good deal. I'm not real proud of myself right about now.
    Tank
     
  2. MSDuckmen

    MSDuckmen Moderator

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    Sorry you feel that way Tank,
    I tend to agree with the Wal-Mart policy. If you hope to see them filing bank o as you call it your no different than the anti’s in my view.
    Their GOOD OLD BOY image is just as good as it has always been and they are doing what they feel is right. You would sing a different tune if they sold a gun to someone that could not be determined if they should be banned or not and that person ended up in your home or work and killed off members of your family or friends you would be dogging the he11 out of them for selling it.

    The policy is simply saying that it does not matter how long it takes they will not sell a gun to someone that is not cleared by the local law enforcement.

    We can’t have it our way all the time too many OUR WAYS to deal with so you have to make a stand that you feel is right regardless of who it offends.

    I say WAY TO GO WAL-MART
     
  3. The Other David

    The Other David Elite Refuge Member

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    Duckmen,

    Walmart is doing what they think will improve their bottom line. If they make more money with this new rule they will continue it. If they lose money, they will change it. Do you think otherwise?

    You seem to have some faith in the Brady law and waiting periods. Do you have any basis for this?

    FWIW, the Brady Law requires you to get government permissionto excercise a right. The three-day turn-around aspect is recognition that the NICS is not a perfect system, and it can hold up replies for extended periods of time.

    Walmart it taking it upon itself to make the law more restrictive. Would it be equally OK for Walmart to refuse to sell you beer unless you're 25 (hell, why not 30), or gas if you drive an inefficient SUV or TRUCK, or donuts if you're overweight? All of these restrictions would likely have some beneficial aspect, so how could you complain?

    I can't wait for the season to start!

    David
     
  4. MSDuckmen

    MSDuckmen Moderator

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    I think Wal-Mart is a Multi Billion Dollar Discount Store that at the drop of a hat gets sued for any reason the general public can and will conjure up. What they are doing is going the extra mile to protect themselves from possible lawsuits that is inevitable when dealing with the sale of firearms. Just like when they quit the sale of reloading supplies many years ago.



    I have some faith that a Felon is not going into a store and buy a gun without getting checked out and a ****ed off husband or wife won’t on a spur of the moment filled with anger will not buy a gun and walk out of a store and kill someone. ( they will have time to chill) not to say that will stop them but it will stop the immediate impulse.



    NO it is making sure you are legally capable of owning a gun. You have no bases to say anything but that. They are not saying you can’t only that you must be eligible. Yes you may have to wait, but your right was not removed.
    And David have you got any better ideas on how to stop a criminal from just buying a gun over the counter. Do you think it is ok to allow a criminal to buy a gun without being checked out first just so you don’t have to wait a few days?
    Are your rights important enough that you walk out the store with the gun the same day you buy it only to have a creep do the same thing and kill or rob someone with a gun where they had done the same thing?




    I just love it when people use the extreme to justify something that they don’t agree with.
    If Wal-Mart came up with a policy not to sell beer I would say great. I drink beer but if they are doing what they feel is right then who am I to judge them in that I’m not the one that will be sued from a mother of a 23 year old student that bought a case of beer and got drunk and killed themselves and 3 others.
    In my opinion it may be money related but none the less until your in the shoes of the company and know why they are doing the things they do you have little to no real voice in what they do unless it is harming you in some way. Making you wait is not harming you unless you’re a PC activist yourself. Every little thing that is done is not just to hurt the gun owners or hunters or sportsman. Sometimes you just have to do what you know is right and it surly is not going to be right for all.



    Me tooooo.


    Better tomorrow
     
  5. The Other David

    The Other David Elite Refuge Member

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    Duckmen,

    Arguing beats working, but it's not as much fun as hunting or fishing!

    Gun control laws in general, and the Brady Law in particular, have not been shown to be effective in preventing crime or violence. If you want to address some specific laws, situation, or reports, I can do that, too.

    The Brady Law was examined in a report published in JAMA, which is one of the most anti-gun medical journals around. The folks doing the research were also overtly anti-gun. THere conclusion was that the Brady Law did not do what it has been advertised and sold as doing.

    You say "I have some faith that a Felon is not going into a store and buy a gun without getting checked out and a ****ed off husband or wife won’t on a spur of the moment filled with anger will not buy a gun and walk out of a store and kill someone. ( they will have time to chill) not to say that will stop them but it will stop the immediate impulse."

    Well, in the absence of evidence that the law does this, can you do anything besides rely on your faith? It's sort of "Well, the law doesn't work, but I have faith in it." Some would call that supersitious behavior!

    Also: "And David have you got any better ideas on how to stop a criminal from just buying a gun over the counter. "

    Well, this would require some effort to adequately address. First, criminals belong in jail. Second, criminals get there guns from many, many sources. They steal them, they have legally eligible people buy them, they buy them from private sales, and they buy them on the black market. Do you really think that the Brady Law keeps a criminal from getting a gun? Really, now. Tell the truth.

    Third, criminals who attempt to buy guns but are blocked generally are not arrested. It was really bad during the Clinton years, and I don't know that it is any better now. At the most, the law as enforced just sends the criminal to another source (see above).

    "Are your rights important enough that you walk out the store with the gun the same day you buy it only to have a creep do the same thing and kill or rob someone with a gun where they had done the same thing? "

    Yes, especially given what I discussed earlier. Furthermore, if I NEED a gun, I NEED it now. Not three days from now, certainly not after Walmart decides I need it.

    "I just love it when people use the extreme to justify something that they don’t agree with."

    What did I say that was extreme? I thought they were all perfectly reasonable!!! We know that younger drinkers, even when legal, are at much higher risk of a car crash. We know that trucks and SUVs use more of a valuable resource. ANd we also know that overweight person are at increased risk of all sorts of health problems that we, as taxpayers, subsidize. Can you refute any of my statements?

    David
     
  6. MSDuckmen

    MSDuckmen Moderator

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    Yes criminals belong in jail but that’s not working what’s next




    And yes they can get guns from many places but not Wal-Mart



    Wal-Mart doesn’t decide they are only saying if the report doesn’t come back in they wait till it does.
    Secondly I can’t conceive that I need a gun on the spot if I do then I have to evaluate why in a strong manner. If I have nothing to hide I have no problem waiting.



    You know what you said my friend and your mixing apples and oranges.
    There are no laws I know of restricting anyone that is a licensed drive to a certain vehicle and no laws saying you can not be fat but there are laws saying you can not own a firearm if you’re a felon. Waiting to receive a firearm is not saying your not getting it only that you must pass, not too far off from passing a drivers test to drive or a weight test to be a jockey. See I can go to extreme too.

    Lets hope that you or a member of your family are never confronted by a armed robber that has just bought a gun from a store that blew the back ground check off. Bet you’ll have a different view then. But for argument sake you’ll probably say you wouldn’t.
     
  7. The Other David

    The Other David Elite Refuge Member

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    Duckmen,

    Let's be clear that we are arguing points and not slamming each other personally. We can do that and still be friends, maybe I can mooch a place in your blind some day, or the other way around. Since this is my forum (I've been waiting two years to say that!), I don't allow ad hominem attacks.

    I don't know how to use the BB copy and paste function. Just one of my many shortcomings. BUt: "Yes criminals belong in jail but that’s not working what’s next "

    Well, if you're proposing the Brady Law and Walmart's policy, I'd like some justification for these laws and policies based on data. This ball is in your court.

    "And yes they can get guns from many places but not Wal-Mart "

    Yes, but so what? This may be risk management from Walmart, but is it doing anything else?

    "Wal-Mart doesn’t decide they are only saying if the report doesn’t come back in they wait till it does. "

    Walmart is deciding if they refuse to sell you a gun.

    "Secondly I can’t conceive that I need a gun on the spot if I do then I have to evaluate why in a strong manner. If I have nothing to hide I have no problem waiting."

    This is irrelevant to the argument. What if you do decide you NEED a gun, for whatever reason, and Walmart is the only game in town, and you are not a prohibited person but the system has failed for whatever reason? Walmart has made the decision for you.

    "There are no laws I know of restricting anyone that is a licensed drive to a certain vehicle and no laws saying you can not be fat but there are laws saying you can not own a firearm if you’re a felon."

    What you say is true, but Walmart is going beyond what is required by law. Restricting beer sales to those 25 or 30 is also merely going beyond that which is required by law. If you accept that the current policy is reasonable, and you apparently do, then what would be your complaint to other restrictions on beer and donuts? Do you at least acknowledge that such policies would have a potential benefit?

    "Waiting to receive a firearm is not saying your not getting it only that you must pass, not too far off from passing a drivers test to drive or a weight test to be a jockey."

    I don't agreee. The law says three days. Walmart goes beyond the law. The law states that you need a drivers' license to operate a motor vehicle on public roads. Walmart does not require you to have a drivers' license to buy tires, but who besides a licensed owner needs them? Makes as much sense as the policy under discussion.

    "See I can go to extreme too. "

    Extreme? Not yet, my young friend!

    David
     
  8. Tank

    Tank Senior Refuge Member

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    First ,I don't believe this would be happening if Sam was still running things. If Wal-Mart was proud of this decision they would have been open about it. I'm more afraid of being shot with a stolen firearm.
    Why should I have to wait for something I have already paid for in more ways than one? I"ve had a FFL, I have a CC permit in which you have to have a back ground check. I was drafted into the army because I didn't have a criminal record and that lasted 2 years of my life.
    Trust me, I'm from the grovenment and I'm here to help. I've voted for Bush 3 times. You and I will never agree on this one friend, but I would still share a duck blind with you. I would bet there's a lot of things we would disagree about. And that's about all we would probably agree on.
     
  9. Longtom

    Longtom Elite Refuge Member

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    Where did this three day thing come from?? Hell if someones app. takes three days, there's obviously a problem somewhere (probably with the applicant himself). If W/M chooses not to use a loophole/glitch in the system, just to make a buck. Then I say Hooray for Wally World, perhaps some other "licensed legal firearms dealers " should follow suit. The NICS(?) check should also be done in conjuction with an NCIC check, until you're cleared through these agencies, you shouldn't be able to purchase a gun period. Boy some of you would really be crying if it took a week to get your gun. Your wife might change her mind!!!:D
     
  10. The Other David

    The Other David Elite Refuge Member

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    Longtom,

    Most delays are due to system failures. Yes, some are due to it taking a while to ascertain that someone is a criminal.

    I think they should require a letter from your wife or Mom (or both!), a note from your third grade teacher, and they should definely speak with your exwife! We can't be too sure!

    Funny thing about freedom. It leads to casualties sometimes. All freedoms do. Each and everyone. Speech. Restrictions on search and seizure. Self incrimination. Dang, they're all dangerous. But since we can't be too sure, I guess it's worth it. For the children!

    David
     

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