Picking a Litter Questions

Discussion in 'Gun Dog Forum' started by serper3, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. serper3

    serper3 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Location:
    Martinez, CA
    Hello All,

    I am a long time lurker on here. I just want to start off by saying thank you all for all the info on this forum. It has been very informative!

    I have been looking for a lab breeder (please feel free to provide recommendations either here directly or via a private message. Does not need to be local.) and more specifically a litter since November or so of last year.

    I am familiar with all the genetic testing common for breeders and understand the importance of the dog's pedigrees. That said, I have a few questions regarding picking a litter:

    1. A lot of the litters I am seeing have a lot of titles in the pedigrees, but the sire and dam do not, or maybe just one of them does. How concerning should this be? Wouldn't the sire and dam's titles (or lack there of), be most important? The hope is that the breeder picked the sire and dam well for this breeding(counting on the reputation of the breeder)... But potentially, these pups might be the worst of their litter and then they are passing on these genetics on to your dog? Or is the combination of prior generations' pedigrees more important then just the sire and dam?

    2. When looking at sire and dam sizes, temperament, etc., I read that if you have a sire and dam that are on opposite spectrums you won't get many pups in the middle. You will get some pups more like the sire, some like the dam, and maybe 1 or so in the middle. Is this true? Besides things that typically vary based on the gender, like size, is it more likely that a female will take on more of the dam's traits, and a male will take on more of the sire's traits? Or are the pups going to be a random mix of physical characteristics and temperament regardless of the gender of the pup and parents?

    I am looking for a litter that will be ready June - July or later if needed. Some more of what I am looking for:
    Black or chocolate female, smaller in size, more athletic build around 50-60 pound range, ideally more calmer, not as strung out. I hunt waterfowl about 25-30 days a year and would like to also hunt upland to get the dog on some more birds. Over the last several months, I have been getting more and more interested in participating in some hunt tests as well. The price isn't really a big concern for the right pup.

    Thanks for your help in advance! I look forward to the comments and will be sure to update when I pick a breeder/litter.
     
  2. Labsforme

    Labsforme Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    159
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2002
    Location:
    Mission Valley,Mt
    I like to see titled at least an FC sire, dam too if possible. If not at least trial placements. The dam has more weight in my considerations. You can get hyper pups from both trial and non trial breedings.Breeding, environment, and raising/training has more to do with what the end result is. Make sure both sire and dam have had health certs for EIC (one carrier ok), CNM, elbows normal ( some controversy there), and hips at least OFA good or better.Eyes CERF normal.RTF ie retrievertraining.net has litters posted in the classifieds. All of my hunting dogs have been trialed ( not hunt tests) and are great house dogs too.

    Jeff G
     
  3. FieldLabLover

    FieldLabLover Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    3,420
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Location:
    Midwest
    I can understand some of your questions, but even the breeders can't predict characteristics or how they fall in the litter. You are correct though, big+little doesn't usually equal medium. The old pick the litter based on the most you can afford fits here. Don't fall for hype. Pick an experienced breeder with a good reputation who can help you pick an individual in the litter that is suited for you but don't stress over it. If you worry about the characteristics you are asking about, you will be looking for a long time and probably many good pups will be sold. A lot has to do with your abilities as a trainer and experience. If you want FC X FC that will be $$$$ invested and not necessarily turn out much better for what you want than less money from maybe a well bred Master Hunter. Look at Retriever Results and see if the sire has produced good dogs. It's nice to pick a female that has been at least hunt tested. Solid genetics are a must. Look at the pedigrees and see if parents and siblings have good health certs. Missing elbows is usually something I would be aware of. If a stud is missing elbows its usually for a reason, and that's not they didn't know to do them, just saying. If you are going to use a trainer, ask them which lines are easy to work with. The time period you are looking at would be the litters are just being bred starting now for June.
     
  4. serper3

    serper3 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Location:
    Martinez, CA
    Thanks guys! Really appreciate it.

    No breeder recommendations? Anyone?
     
  5. Labsforme

    Labsforme Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    159
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2002
    Location:
    Mission Valley,Mt
    retrievertraining.net has litters posted in the classifieds under lab puppies.Also check Entry Express classifieds. If you are looking for local ie Cal, Or, Wa hard to find a decent breeding advertised.
     
  6. Slick

    Slick Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    726
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Location:
    Rocklin, CA
    Here are some outstanding breeders here in CA:

    Jay Phelps, Gazelle, CA*
    Judy Pond, Wilton, CA
    Mary Ahlgren, Winters, CA*
    Missy Bell, Novato, CA*
    Cal Cadmus, Oakdale, CA
    Julie Cole, Yuba City, CA
    Debb Fulgoni, Hollister, CA
    Don Graves, Lake Almanor, CA*
    Rich Pingatore, Chico, CA
    Luan Pleasant, Corning, CA*

    *exceptional breeders

    Google their kennel and phone #
     
  7. Doc E

    Doc E Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    21,354
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2000
    Location:
    Colville WA USA
    Top Hunt Test titles from any of the three main organizations -- AKC -- UKC/HRC -- NAHRA (along with health clearances) will give you good chances of getting a good pup.
     
  8. serper3

    serper3 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Location:
    Martinez, CA
    Thank you to everyone! I really appreciate it!
     
  9. Labsforme

    Labsforme Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    159
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2002
    Location:
    Mission Valley,Mt
    Jay Phelps, Gazelle, CA*
    Judy Pond, Wilton, CA Duck Pond Kennels Elk Grove
    Mary Ahlgren, Winters, CA*
    Missy Bell, Novato, CA*
    Cal Cadmus, Oakdale, CA DVM
    Julie Cole, Yuba City, CA mostly Chessies has labs with Sargenti
    Debb Fulgoni, Hollister, CA
    Don Graves, Lake Almanor, CA*
    Rich Pingatore, Chico, CA
    Luan Pleasant, Corning, CA* Red Rover Retrievers has Don Graves dogs, Debi Fulgoni as well when she is not running her

    Jeff G
     
  10. stevena198301

    stevena198301 Elite Refuge Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    15,412
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Location:
    HSV, Alabama
    If you are interested in the British bloodline, look into Duck Hills out of TN.
     

Share This Page