Pic's of wad with very high PSI

Discussion in 'Shooting - Reloading Forum' started by AIRBORNE6869, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. AIRBORNE6869

    AIRBORNE6869 Refuge Member

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    As the pic's indicates the wad on the left is from factory HEVI X 20ga 3" 1.0 oz of #2 shot at about 1341. Fairly normal wad, the pic doesn't show it but there is a small portion of the skirt that was blown off. That I think is a wad failure not from high PSI.
    The new wad on right is what the center wad started out as but there is a striking difference. The wad in center was loaded from the load data obtained in printed material from a major reloading component producer. Based on years of reloading experience I thought the load powder seemed high so backed off 1 full grain. The data printed vel was 1640 with high but not overly high PSI. With the load backed off 1 grain I fired the load in an 20ga O/U with way over 1800 fps. The recovered wad which clearly indicates very high PSI is in center of pic. This is why I don't do initial testing in semi-auto.

    AIRBORNE
     

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  2. 10GAGENUT

    10GAGENUT Elite Refuge Member Sponsor Flyway Manager

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    Why it's a good idea to cross reference a recipe before you load it, if you see a powder charge and velocities that's way over anything any other manual has then I usually question it. First thing I would have done was ask myself how many other recipes do you see with listed velocities like that for a 20 gauge. There's no magic formulas no matter how much we want to believe there may be.
    BTW the wad in the middle looks like it failed due to melting a bit, once you start getting over 1800 fps many wads do start to melt due to friction.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  3. dla

    dla Senior Refuge Member

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    Wad and gas move down the bore at same velocity. Upon clearing the muzzle, the gas accelerates to between 4000-7000fps (depends on gas temperature) while the wad decelerates. The skirt of some wads will be damaged by the accelerating gas.

    At 1800fps, the wad petals could be ripped off as they are pushed back by air pressure.

    Hard for me to believe that anyone can hit 1800fps and stay within CIP HP (15.2Kpsi), but never say never.......
     
  4. AIRBORNE6869

    AIRBORNE6869 Refuge Member

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    Oh I think within a few years that 1800 fps will be the norm, but make NO mistake the 20ga load mentioned in my post was not within PSI spec's. But my point was and is that no one should take any other persons work for it, check it out first, start from below and work up.

    AIRBORNE
     
  5. Dave in AZ

    Dave in AZ Senior Refuge Member

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    If that is the BPI load #150227 6318, called "Invincible" (which is the only load I find in my database with 1640 fps published), I've made a few posts at hmm, probably DHC, that I found it to be much too hot, at least as I loaded it...
    If this isn't the load you're discussing, then at least this is a second cautionary tale for a similar high-speed 20ga CSD20 load which I'm sure folks would happen across and consider using.

    -- I also dropped the powder, 1.5 gr to 41gr. Ripped the hull off the base and hull was stuck up in the barrel of the gun. Basewad metal was ripped also.
    -- I have gone through 5 versions of this load, chronographing and patterning at the range and dropping powder each time. 39 gr worked OK but I was still getting 1631 fps, way more than needed for HW, just total excess kick.
    --I am now at 36 gr powder from the published 42.5, and get 1450fps-- way more than enough for HW13.

    At a 6.5gr powder reduction, that is my favorite 20ga HW13 load, but it is a huge powder reduction.
    https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/my-favorite-20ga-hw13-duck-load/
    That link is my writeup on the load and testing if it's what you're talking about and interested.
     
  6. Ravenanme

    Ravenanme Elite Refuge Member

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    And it's a Dang Good one at that ! Thanks Dave
     
  7. 10GAGENUT

    10GAGENUT Elite Refuge Member Sponsor Flyway Manager

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    Good work with that load Dave. What gets me is you had to reduce down from the original load recipe a bit more than 15% of the powder charge and BPI has a few with even more Lil Gun listed. Been hearing about more and more bad episodes with much of BPI's data, makes one wonder.
    Well at least you got experience making your own loads.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  8. JFG

    JFG Elite Refuge Member

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    I’m not the reloading machines some of you guys are but do often load three different gauges. What I’ve gleaned from this and other reloading forums is don’t take “published” loads as the gospel. Not to rag on BPI but I hear a lot of complaints about their data. My first recipe for HW13 in a 28ga called for 3 NC430 in the shot cup. When I added the shot on the first round, it was nearly flush with the top. Tried another one, same result. Called them and asked if data was mis printed and they said no, load should fit. Well, ended up almost two nitro cards less before it would finally close. Not a serious over powder issue like in the situation above but none the less an error or ?? on their part that adds to the credability of a lot of their testing ....at least from what I’ve gathered over the years.
     
  9. 10GAGENUT

    10GAGENUT Elite Refuge Member Sponsor Flyway Manager

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    That's a personal choice issue whether you choose to trust BPI's load data or not, because of the amount of deleted loads, loads that didn't fit, overpressure loads or loads that didn't perform as advertised I choose not to trust much of their load data. Main problem is there is very little published load data available for non toxic shot, so many people use BPI's data good or bad.
    My personal opinion is if your not sure cross reference or ask someone on the board here, there's so much that can wrong it's better to be safe than sorry.
    Years ago when STEEL powder first came on the market several people had their guns destroyed by bad data, it wasn't directly who published the data's fault as Alliant drastically changed STEEL powders formula, but it's another reason why I'm careful about what I choose for recipes.
     
  10. JFG

    JFG Elite Refuge Member

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    That being said, especially about the aSteel, I’ve recently loaded some 28ga rounds with aSteel from Lot #6. The recipe calls for 19 grains, chedite hull pre primed, TPS wad, nitro card and OS card, 7/8 oz HW13 #6. I can not seem to locate my specific data for this load in that it’s been several years I got it and in all likelyhood from BPI but I remember several others saying it checked out.

    Sooo, has anyone tested this with older and newer lots of aSteel and can verify findings? All my other loads I’ve loaded/shot were using Lil’gun and have been fine over the years.
     

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