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Proposed Tagging Regulations

Discussion in 'Canadian Hunters Forum' started by KK-MN, Oct 16, 2006.

  1. Hunter/Gather

    Hunter/Gather Elite Refuge Member

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    Personally, I'd much rather see a tag system adopted than the time limit. We've been hunting Alberta or Sask for about fifteen years and have never exceeded posession limits.

    Its a long drive, and feeling like we had to hurry to get birds would be a loss. If someone feels they need to shoot more than the very generous posession limits and eat a few they need to check their ethics.

    And we have only gifted birds to landowners that asked for a bird or two. Since we've fixed them our Asian style BBQ'd goose we get a few more requests in the area we hunt. But this year those folks came hunting with us.:tu

    In the past we've had locals want to hunt with us and give us their birds because they didn't want them.:no
     
  2. max 4

    max 4 New Member

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    Sjemac is right when he talks of provinces that are becomeing increaseingly commercialized.Here in PEI it is getting worse trying to predict what birds are going to do,trying to get into a field is hard when the birds start going in a field there is a line up of outfitters offering top dollar for the field so for the average joe that can`t afford that kind of money.Its quickly becoming a rich mans game here I think a tag system both for NR and residents (guides,we all know they arn`t supposed to hunt while guideing but we also know they do it unofficially of course)would be a good way to curb the hunting pressure.A limit on how many birds the outfitters as a whole would also accomplish this give each outfitter X amount of tags once there gone they are done.these are just my opions but something has to be done or the locals around here are going to quit hunting and all that will be left is outfitters
     
  3. weavervillan

    weavervillan Senior Refuge Member

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    :tu If we have to choose one of the two, I agree w/ ya. A tag system would be easy to enforce, and would prevent guys from gifting excessive amounts of birds (As I understand it, non-res would still be able to buy multiple 6 day licenses next year). It's tough to hear stories of guys gifting 100 white-fronts in a season, especially when that pop'n is hurting to begin w/.

    However, if our goal is to reduce pop'n numbers (i.e. Mid-cont snows), the amount of leg tags issued should be liberal or non-existant.

    IMO the best way to solve the problem w/ non-res is to put a cap on the number of folks coming into the province (directly limits hunting pressure). I believe that is the only way that the quality of hunting that exists in Canada will be preserved for future generations to enjoy.
     
  4. bang you'r dead

    bang you'r dead Canada Forum Mod. Eh! Moderator Flyway Manager

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    Gifting is illegal unless the recipient is in possession of a current migratory game bird stamp. It is illegal to give to native hunters, under the current interpretation of the law. I quote: "The Natural Resources Transfer Agreement (1930), which forms part of the Constitution Act (1982), provides that Indian people have the right to hunt.

    This includes havesting for food or traditional ceremonial purposes for personal or family use, or for other First Nations persons. Meat may be shared with non-status family members living in the same home.

    Non-Indian people may accompany Indian people that are hunting, but may not help them to exercise their hunting rights. For example, a non-Indian person may not assist an Indian hunter by shooting his game, carrying a gun, searching for or flushing game, or be in possession of any meat, or animal parts taken under status Indian hunting rights. They can, however, assist in retrieval of game or transporting of game while accompanying an Indian person. Similarly, licensed hunters can be accompanied by status Indians, but each may only exercise the rights accorded to them individually."

    If you want to come up to Canada and hunt more than 6 days, do a tour of the three provinces and spend money in all three. As to the illegal outfitters, we have had our share up here as well. The other option would be a 14 day license with a tag system, probably 4 x the daily limit, which would allow you to shoot one day, eat the birds in the next 2-3 days, then go out again, ensuring you don't go over , and a reasonable number of birds can be taken. Most hunters up here combine their hunting with fishing and upland game as well. Some even take in a guided hunt for bear in the fall. You can do a lot of different activities, other than taking limits of ducks every day from the beginning of the season until freeze-up. We do have some hunters who come up here in Sept 8th and stay until freeze-up, and hammer their limits every day. They then make their way down to SD for a few weeks , then back home, I think in WI. If they eat all those birds, all the power to them, but most are "gifted".
     
  5. blackfoot1

    blackfoot1 Elite Refuge Member

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    I am for a 6 day license with 3 days of tags(24 ducks and 24 geese). Guys the only people that Canada is going to listen too is the residents. They do NOT care what Americans think. Canada is doing whats best for them, if you don't like it, oh well. Move to Canada and become a citizen or hunt somewhere else. There is that arguement that you spending money helps the locals and the small towns. Sorry, but it won't hold water. Two words for ya---OIL PATCH!! Oh, and ya can't bitch about the outfitters doing it, Alberta in two months will reduce the number of outfitters to 4 per WMU. There are over 30 WMU's that have between 5-14. Again, they are doing what is best for the residents. Good for them. Later, B
     
  6. Hunter/Gather

    Hunter/Gather Elite Refuge Member

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    B.F.#1,

    I hope that the Canadian people do what is in the best interest of the resource and the long term interests of those that hunt. You and I probably don't agree on what that is though. This horse has been beat to death before, but I hope the Canadians figure out a system, one that prevents the gluttony that the unethical are prone to, hopefully without punishing those that aren't the problem.

    Mitch Farro
     
  7. blackfoot1

    blackfoot1 Elite Refuge Member

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    Mitch, i agree with everything you said in your last statement. It was well put. Have a great hunting season. Brian
     
  8. Anatidae

    Anatidae Senior Refuge Member

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    "Dixie"
    We just returned from SK. Like others have said.....it's vacation time. Some folks like to burn themselves to a crisp on the beach in Florida. Not us....(me and my wife).

    We usually spend a week in Southern SK then a week in mid-latitude SK. The reason we do that is so we are more likely to hit a favorable weather pattern in 2 weeks and 2 locations, than 1 week of 'hit-or-miss'.

    When you drive 2000 miles to get there, you'd like to have a few days of decent hunting weather without going at such a frantic pace, that you can't relax and enjoy all the other things you go up there for, besides the hunting opportunities. The best way to do that is to spread it out over a longer period.

    Besides, I'm not getting any younger......gettin' too old to set-up a field spread in the morning, hunt upland 'til noon, fix lunch, clean birds, scout/locate/get permission, cook supper, take a shower, put-up meat, get 6 hours sleep......then get-up and do it again for 5 days straight.....or until you reach the posession limit. I don't care to hunt every day.....too much work!

    Southern SK: TOO dry......local birds had been shot and were hard to pattern. Upland was good......got grouse but hard to get huns. Hunted upland 2 days before we ever got in a duck/goose 'pattern' that would warrant setting-up a field spread. When we did.....the weather AND their pattern changed. Then when we established a pattern and were ready to hunt the feeding field, a idiot with Wisconsin plates shot the staging pond (of all things) without gaining landowner permission......we were the only ones who had been given permission to hunt that section that day. It happens......but it cost us a field hunt for ducks. Sad thing is.....the idiot from Wisconsin didn't kill anything either. So we headed North....

    Mid-latitude SK: TOO wet!.....plenty birds, snow, too much water, but freezing fast.......foot access, only. We packed-in first day.....got geese. Temperatures dropped......froze ground......truck access......good hunting. Then roost and staging ponds started freezing. Geese everywhere but we were 'done'......'needed ducks. Had permission to hunt a field for ducks but got there and a local hunter was set-up. Found-out later he had permission to hunt a different field from the same landowner. We yielded to local hunter and went to another spot. Killed 4 ducks as we watched 4K bomb the field we had permission to hunt. I'm not bitter. But the ducks left that night (11/1) and so did our last opportunity. 'Spent the next 3 days videoing honkers (over same 8-dozen field spread) just for the pleasure of watching the birds.

    We had planned on staying a full 3 weeks this year, but the temperature warmed on Monday 11/6 and we knew the fields would thaw and we wouldn't be able to access them via truck. We were going to stay and film the 3rd week, visit friends we hadn't gotten to see yet, then go home. Instead, we left a week early.

    What did we do instead of hunting every day? 'Went to 2 Fall Suppers, attended a midget league hockey game of one our freinds' son's, visited other friends, took photos and video footage, went to the veterinarian's office (dog ran her pads raw upland hunting.....then got an endolite ulcer in one eye), slept-in, cooked breakfast and went sight seeing/ scouting, changed stubble on blinds 4 times, cleaned and packaged birds, cleaned house, went to Wadena Wetlands Area, drove 28 hours to first loaction, 4 hours to second location, and 33 hours home, scouted several fields for several days to make sure we wouldn't bump someone else....was invited to Supper with 4 different families. You don't eat fast, jump-up and say, "gotta get-up early, tomorrow."

    Farmer said he doesn't allow guides to use his land. (Go figure) 'Also said 8 hunters from Minnesota were going to hunt his land without asking permission. He caught them and turned them away. Other hunters wanting to hunt his land got ****ed when he told them they had to walk in. Imagine that. So, he's posting all his land next year, and only allowing those who ask permission to hunt. Shame it has to get to that, but I'd do the same thing if it were mine.

    Now tell me.....how does a 6-day permit stop bull$#!+ like that? Oh yeah.....it's about rogues, huh? Bull$#!+

    All this to say......not everybody that goes up there and stays for more than 10 days is a rogue outfitter. My wife and I have talked about taking a couple of friends (because that's all we've got) with us, but we don't want the pressure of feeling responsible for any lack of success due to circumstances uncontrollable or not. And if people are complaining about hwo much pressure there is already, dam if I want be blamed for adding to it by taking someone else. There's nothing wrong with sharing this experience with friends......and I would eventually like to take 2.......but the 6-day thing is going to kill that idea. And that's precisely what it's designed to do.

    I hate that there's people that abuse the privilege to hunt up there. I personally contacted the CWS about a potential 'rogue' that takes 'friends' hunting. That's all I can do. It's up to the CWS agents to make a case. Otherwise, it's just another false assumption/accusation against something you can't prove without seeing the money change hands. I think all these horror stories about rogue guides, mass gifting, dumping, exceeding limits and such is way over-exagerated to the point where folks like us are paying the price for someone else's bad behavior.

    We set-up for waterfowl 12 times over a 12-day period. We zeroed on 4 of those hunts. Got our honkers in 2. It took the other 6 hunts to get a 2-man possession limit of ducks because of other hunters and the freeze-up. We upland hunted 5 times (all on-foot), zeroed twice and brought back 11 chickens and 3 huns. I keep a daily log of what we do. I gave 1 goose away, cooked 2 more and came home with 29. We ate 4 ducks, gave away 6 and brought home 22. I had everything properly tagged.

    All this is my own admission. Everybody's pointing fingers and focusing so much on the horror stories (of which no one really knows what percentage of those are true, or actually resulted in prosecution and fines)....yet the good guys get screwed!

    Now.......tell me what I did 'wrong' ......?

    I tell you what.....when Candian Customs asked how long we were planning to stay for hunting and visiting?.......and we said 3 weeks?......her eyebrows went up. They know! So, does that make me any less of a rogue than someone else staying 3 weeks? Why not? Surely I must have shot my limit every day and dumped them in a ditch somewhere......or gave'em all to a food bank or Indian tribe so I could keep hunting the freeze-up after all the ducks had left. How come there wasn't anybody waiting for me at the border on the way home? 'Cause they were more concerned about people driving around shooting cow elk outa their pick-up trucks.

    BTW......I'm with Kid Creole 100% on the weather variable. I'm not whining about it, because I sucked it up and dealt with it, too. But it IS a variable that should merit some consideration. It would be different if I were within 10 hours of the border.......but I'm down here with 'Ramsey'.....30 hours away.
     
  9. Chris Benson

    Chris Benson Elite Refuge Member

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    Anatidae,

    As I'm sure every Canadian would agree you're not the problem, hunters like yourself that show respect to the farmers, local hunters, the land and the resource are the types of people we will welcome with open arms every year.

    If you read the whole thread, you'll see that it has been said a few times hunters like yourself aren't the problem. Maybe you haven't seen some of the problems we have up here, but like it or not, there are problems in Canada with some "hunters" abusing the lack of regulations/enforcement.

    The problem with CWS officials is there simply not enough of them to make a difference. Local DNR officers are under funded, under manned.

    If you have better ideas on how to deal with some of the problems Canadians have seen, please feel free to share.
     
  10. Anatidae

    Anatidae Senior Refuge Member

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    Chris, I appreciate your comments and patience with my rant. I think y'all know I want what's best for you local guys. It's just frustrating to us because we genuinely appreciate the privilege y'all have been willing to share with us......and to see that privilege abused by anybody, concerns us all.......for obvious reasons.

    If you want to curtail the rogue activity, I think the leg tag idea would be a possible solution......and at least workable for us. But give us a 3-days possesion limit. 24 ducks 24 geese. That's basically 6 good hunts or 3 really exceptional hunts.

    It would be easy enough to drive-up, get settled, scout, locate birds/fields, wait on weather patterns, then go get a 6-day license when everything is 'right'.

    The other thing is extablish zones......and limit NR permit duration in the more conjested/populated/heavily advertized 'hubs'.....longer permit durations for outlying areas.

    What about making duration a factor of whatever time seems to attract the most NR's. Say have a 6-day permit during September through October 15th.....and then lengthen it to 10-12 days for folks that come after the 'fair' weather hunters and joy-seekers are gone.

    What about a 6-day license for upland and a separate 6-day license for waterfowl, for either the same period or different period? That way, if you hunt 1 particular area for each game, you don't kill yourself trying to do both in one 6-day period in the same area. Let the outfitters provide a combo hunt for waterfowl and upland for a 6-day client's stay. Freelancers don't have a chance to hunt both under one 6-day permit. Having separate permits would help tremendously.
     

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