Pump guns

Discussion in 'Shooting - Reloading Forum' started by Wareaglebrowning, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. Ravenanme

    Ravenanme Elite Refuge Member

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    That's because if you twist the Forearm stock on a model 12 with its single action bar , it will cause you to short-stroke the pump action BUT on a Wingmaster
    having 2 slide action bars , the twisting doesn't effect its operation .
    Both are wicked in the hands of a experienced Pump Gun shooter shooting
    Trap Doubles ! :yes:l:l
     
  2. JP

    JP Elite Refuge Member

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    John M. Browning's favorite shotgun was purported to be his Winchester model 1897 trap model.
     
  3. PantherMartin

    PantherMartin Elite Refuge Member

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    All of the pumps mentioned I have owned, shot, cleaned or repaired except the 1897. It's not a current viable firearm for a waterfowl piece in my opinion. I've seen people hunt with the '97 and saw one person shot with one on a malfunction. Luckily for the person shot, it was deflected pellets in the leg off a car door.

    When giving an assessment, some people get offended for various reasons. So I don't know if I would do that. I might if I squeeze in the time. I tend to look at a pump from easy to clean, repair and dependability factors and also would I carry it on duty.

    The Express gets a lot of attention and comment. Here is an article from my stack of stuff pile. I don't remember where I got it. But it's pretty good information on the differences between the Wingmaster and Express. Things might of changed on the Express since it was written. It's written with a put your life on the line slant.

    "The Remington 870 Express line of shotguns is geared towards the budget shotgunner. The Express is still a Remington 870, however there are some mechanical and cosmetic differences from the other lines of 870:

    No finish machining (burrs, sharp edges, etc. aren't removed)

    Has a less expensive finish

    Uses a longer fore-end (the Police uses Speedfeed stocks)

    Different barrel lock system

    Uses the "ISS" safety which allows the user to lock the cross-bolt safety in the SAFE position

    Plastic trigger guard (breaks easier)

    Cast extractor and ejector (breaks easier)

    Lighter sear spring (less predictable)

    Shorter magazine spring (less reliable feeding)

    Lighter carrier dog spring (less reliable feeding)

    Concerning the last five items. It is my opinion that these things ought to be remedied prior to pushing an 870 Express into combat duty. All of these issues are easy and inexpensive to fix, as all one has to do is replace the aforementioned parts with those meant for a Remington 870P (Police).

    It should also be noted that the 870 Express' fore-end must be replaced if you intend to use a standard 6 round side saddle, otherwise you're stuck with a shortened 4 round side saddle. The stock Express fore-end was made long so as to come back farther and cover part of the receiver in the retracted position. Remington did this to prevent average citizens from building an "evil assault shotgun," along with the addition of dimples inside the magazine tube to prevent the installation of an aftermarket magazine extension. Fortunately, Americans are a lot smarter than the apparently left leaning, pandering, Nanny State executives at Remington and one can simply file down the dimples in the mag tube and replace the fore-end to correct the gun's short-comings."
     
  4. Ravenanme

    Ravenanme Elite Refuge Member

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    Something about this Forum tells me ,WE should be talking about hunting guns , and not weapons to kill someone with !
    You KNOW like Sporting Arms , equipment to have fun with and be proud of ! You get what you PAY For so if you go Cheap ,
    don't expect it to function like what a serious Waterfowler's shooting , right ? :l:l:tu
     
  5. 10GAGENUT

    10GAGENUT Elite Refuge Member Sponsor Flyway Manager

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    As far as reliability goes I'll take my old SXS guns over most anything made today, simplicity has it's benefits!!
     
  6. Steelshot Scott

    Steelshot Scott Senior Refuge Member

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    I agree with PantherMartin, the 870 Express is not the same gun as the Wingmaster. My 870 Express was not reliable. Mine, and several others that friend's of mine own had one almost certain way to jam it. If you fired the gun and cycled the action while pointing the gun straight up while shouldered, the shell would not be thrown clear. It would drop down into the action and stove pipe the gun. It will not do this if you put shells in the gun and just cycle it, you must fire the gun and cycle it. If you hold the gun straight up out in front of you, it will cycle. But if you fire it shouldered and try to cycle it while pointing straight up, it will jam.It is the fired hull that will not clear the action.I have a friend who had one that would jam when he took it dove hunting. He would put in the shop and the gunsmith could find nothing wrong with it. He would take it afield again and again it would jam. I told him to try to shoot it and cycle the action straight up while the gun was shouldered. It didn't jam when firing with the gun level( the way the gun was fired during troubleshooting). I recommended the Winchester 1300 to him and he liked it so much he bought one for his wife to use.

    This being said, I also have friends that swear by the Express. My hunting buddy has a 870 Express that he breaks out for duck hunting on occasion. His primary gun is a SBE, but if going hunting in our canoes, he opts for the Express(sometimes).
     
  7. Ravenanme

    Ravenanme Elite Refuge Member

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    Until you try to eject a spent round while hunting out of a hole in the ground blind ? Same goes for my O/U's not as bad but PITA !
     
  8. Tuleman

    Tuleman Elite Refuge Member

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    This gun review come out of Soldier of Fortune magazine?
     
  9. 43x

    43x Elite Refuge Member

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    Randy Wakeman , lol
     
    JP and 10GAGENUT like this.
  10. Steelshot Scott

    Steelshot Scott Senior Refuge Member

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    I have heard people talk about the single slide bar on the Model 12 twisting, but I have never had it cause a problem for me. But I guess it is something to think about.
     

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