Sage Grouse

Discussion in 'Upland Game Forum' started by MN/MTHunting, May 3, 2009.

  1. dirty bird

    dirty bird Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    629
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    Location:
    Montana
    Aw heck Dr. Cattlerancher! Thanks for all of your enlightenment!
    We might as well swing this in a new direction.
    What do prairie dogs eat? I'm confused by this. You say there is no grass in prairie dog towns but all the ones on the Refuge I work at have grass and forbs (I'm not in sagebrush country so none of that here). In fact, all the prairie dog towns I've ever seen have grass and forbs on them, sure they are grazed down by the little critters but it's still there. Are you telling me prairie dogs eat dirt? Or maybe they eat sagegrouse? I don't know?
    What's gonna be next on you list of things to b!t@# about? You wanna go into threatened and endangered species next? Whooping cranes, black footed ferrets, piping plovers, least terns, Gunnison sage grouse, Attwaters prairie chickens. On second thought maybe we shouldn't since I've worked on piping plovers and stackin_smilers is working with them right now...
    I've worked on turkeys - yeah we could talk about that since I was introducing them into an area for the state, for research, for hunters. But then again, I did have some mortality due to alfalfa mowers and I had a nest trampled by cattle so that could start a whole other sh!tstorm since you're a cattle guy...
    This is entertaining for me! :dv
     
  2. stackin_smilers

    stackin_smilers Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    2,169
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Location:
    Montana
    Man you know ALOT about Sagebrush and Sage Grouse... I think pwople who actually do work on them could REALLY use your help in bringing hte numbers back up.

    The purpose of the quote I added was to show that there is actual literature out there on this stuff, not what some guy from MN dreamed up one night after watching a lek. Did you happen to notice all the differnt authors cited in there??? That was found in introduction of the thesis (not dissertation) I got that from. This isnt new information, but I am sure you would have some expert opinion to add...:rolleyes:

    Oh and have you heard of the NORTHERN GREAT PLAINS???:scratch Thats the endless see of grass you talking about when the homesteaders came. The sagebrush steppe has ALWAYS been there (throughout western US). What do you think the Sage grosue just magically appeared after the plows came through and "dried up the land to clear the way for more sagebrush"?? Remember taht sage grouse are sagebrush obligates???????? in otherwords they need it to survive so your theory thta the plows made more sagebrush means that the numbers are higher now that presettlement times... OK...:rolleyes:

    I feel like Im doing everything here....
    READ THIS
    http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/sciencef/scifi91.pdf

    "Sagebrush ecosystems once encompassed
    up to 150 million acres—virtually half of
    the American West."

    "The sagebrush ecosystem is one of the largest ecosystems in the United States. It is also considered
    highly imperiled."
     
  3. stackin_smilers

    stackin_smilers Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    2,169
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Location:
    Montana
    Thats about the ONLY thing that anyone would agree with you at this point... And RESEARCH has proven that time and time again
     
  4. nemont

    nemont Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    2,315
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    Glasgow, Montana
    I have wasted a couple of minutes reading this thread and I have no idea what all you guys are upset about. Lot's of opinions out here regarding sage grouse. The one thing I know is that they have been having increasing numbers locally. A couple of new leks were studied and one of the existing leks recorded over 100 males on it.

    Good luck with all the back and forth but in the end Sage Grouse are going to continued to be studied.

    Nemont
     
  5. Mattcarlson7

    Mattcarlson7 Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    952
    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Location:
    Idaho
    wish it was that way here...transplant them so we can shoot a few!
     
  6. stackin_smilers

    stackin_smilers Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    2,169
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Location:
    Montana
    Im only arguing that hes saying that researchers are killing birds when theres real reasons why they are decreasing over their range.

    I remember reading an old book that was saying something about leks having 150-200 males on them. That would be cool to see!
     
  7. sacbob

    sacbob Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    7,157
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    Location:
    Sacramento CA
    Nemont, good to hear from you. That is good news:tu Wish I could say the same about California.
     
  8. stackin_smilers

    stackin_smilers Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    2,169
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Location:
    Montana
    thats what im saying. I honestly dont know why I keep coming back to this but its just drives me nuts that the first place people go to blame is researchers and wildlife biologist.

    I would bet my life savings that if for some reason there was absolutly no research in MT for years on sage grouse and they happen to disappear, a certain someone would still go the wildlife biologist and want to know why... and then blame them for it when they didnt know why becasue they didnt do research...

    Research is what closed the ND sage grouse seaon down when the birds dropped from over 500 displaying males on all the leks to less than 70 in 8 years. And for some reason:scratch the sage grouse habitat in the state is mostly located within an active oil field that recently had a big boom:scratch

    Regardless there is research everywhere. Its alwats going to be there. All those band ****s out there that are completely infatuated with bands, where do you think they came from??? the birds didnt grow them!
     
  9. sacbob

    sacbob Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    7,157
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    Location:
    Sacramento CA
    Got to be! Otherwise what would all those Ms & Phd candidates do?:h
     
  10. MN/MTHunting

    MN/MTHunting Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    1,059
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
    Location:
    MN-MT
    Back to Prairie dogs for now.

    These little rodents eat themselves out of house and home.

    The vegetation within the active town is VERY sparse.

    Prairie dogs rely ALMOST entirely on perimeter food supplies.

    On larger colonies, say 40 acres or more [not that, that is large] Those rodents that have to travel the furthest for food tend to be the smallest and most scrawny. [Maybe natures way to help keep the critters population in check]. So, the more time they have to travel to find food, the more exposed to predation. Of course this gets worse on dry years.

    Anyway, what "towns people" think are forbes and prairie flowers growing withing the dog town are most likely Leafy Spurge, Cheat Grass, or Spotted Knapweed.

    Anyone care to guess how these invasive species get to these remote areas?

    Hey! RIGHT ON!:tu It's the muddy pick ups and 4 wheelers that chase around off road.:cry:z
     

Share This Page