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Snow Conservation Question.

Discussion in 'Snow Goose Hunting Forum' started by Specgod, Mar 15, 2005.

  1. SwampHunter

    SwampHunter Elite Refuge Member

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    Jed,
    Wasn't refering to you when I quoted you. Was talking about TSG and what he said about potlickers all the while he knew someone else that is doing something illegal. :tu
    Kinda throws his credability way out the door. But so does being a guide that kills birds and he is griping about someone else killing birds. :yes I also find it hard to believe that he has never had a crippled bird on a decoy shoot. If he has then he is just as bad as anyone else. :yes
     
  2. Fetch

    Fetch Elite Refuge Member

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    Oh Big Time

    They (older birds) want to breed & get back up North & like has been said follow the snow line north - But as was kinda said this year it is more of a open water line - They will fly to open fields to feed But have to have safer open water to roost & it is really just kinda starting to open up in ND - Monday they are saying maybe 50's & then they will move - But many years they can move thru way to quick, as the weather opens up in Canada at the same time it does here - The other factor is Corn - They do not have much if any corn in Canada - ND had most of it's corn chopped & rolled over last fall due to early freeze & disease, so it will be interesting when they find it how long they feed - They need body Fat you know, Big Time as there is not anything to really eat up in the Artic for a month or better - (No new grass growing or bugs up there yet) Plus the last year hatch, are not really breeders and are in no hurry to leave the Corn fields

    You want to know the neatest thing about being out for spring Snows is seeing all the other waterfowl in their best spring breeding colors - we even ran into about 30 Bald Eagles that were following a large flock of waterfowl (for food) - mostly SOB's) & we were dazzled watching them - Bring a camera !!! or better yet Video camera or both :yes
     
  3. hockley

    hockley Elite Refuge Member

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    I will say a few more things and then I am done with this.

    It is hard to believe that someone has made several hundred sneaks and has never shot a non-target bird. Even if there are a of few those that have I would suspect that you are in the minority. There is simply no way to accurately identify every bird that will be in your pattern when you have anywhere from 500-1,000 birds in that area. If you say you can then you are simply FOS! On top of this how in the hell do you watch all of your cripples when you have 10 guys unloading 5 rounds into a group of 10,000 geese? I have had times where you shoot at 3 geese and one bird falls 500+ yards away and only one person sees it.

    Secondly, jumping or harassing birds greatly disturbs them and causes them to be more cautious and less comfortable. You ask, well shooting birds over decoys and missing them educates them? Yeah, sure it does, but the main difference is you are shooting at anywhere from one to maybe a hundred geese at the max! You are definitely not shooting at the whole damn flock of 10,000. Also, I can not tell you how many times I have had a group of three snows come in, kill two, and the other one circle around to come right back in. Sure seems like he didn’t get too smart!

    For those who sky bust, that scares geese as well, but then again you are not shooting at all 10,000. On the hunts that I take, I very seldom call a shot on a snow goose if it is over 60-65 yards. If I do it will be one or two geese at the max, definitely not a large flock. That way everyone is shooting at one or two geese whick greatly increases your odds of a kill shot. If my guys can not kill them, then I simply will not call that shot next time. I have had hunts where I would not call a 50 yard shot becuase I knew that the goose would probably just fly off wounded.

    Skybusting is a relative term. Some of the guys that strictly shoot Canada geese may call a 40 yard shot skybusting. Well I agree if you are shooting canadas that will land in the damn decoys. I consider skybusting over 60 yards, and in no way do I condone that practice.

    Pass shooting also disturbs geese. I do not do it and 90 percent of the people that I guide with do not practice it. Why? Because spreading out over a 300 yard fence line hurts your hunting because you are shooting at the majority of the birds coming to that field, therefore educating them. You also have a tendency to take longer shots. People that hunt with the idea to pass shoot are why snows go straight up about 400 yards when they get off the roost.

    I never sit out of the spread. Sure, sometimes I have guys that want to and may get a little upset that we don't, but if I or another guide has to hunt those same birds the next day that ruins their hunt. I'll take my 10 over decoys, and leave the other 5 I could have killed on the fence line for another day. I personally believe that you can kill just as many from a spread as you can from a fence line on any given day. The exception to this would be a day wiht 20+ mph winds.

    Again, no money is a lame excuse to sneak geese, so don’t use that. I understand it is legal and everyone has their right, but at least realize what you are doing. The reason I know it hurts because before this CO crap you could drive up within 150 yards of a feeding group of geese and get out of the truck and yell at them and they would never move. When you do that now as soon as that truck stops every goose has it’s head up looking at you if it is not already flying. When that first door opens they haul arse.

    I will say this if we wanted a good picture we could have had good pictures, but that is not what it is about. There have been many times where we have killed close to or more than 1,000 geese over a three day period. Why do you think that we very seldom post pictures? We don’t have a thing to prove to anyone! I’ll say this, if anyone knows more about killing geese than Speck, Kappa, and Texas Rattler (where is he by the way) I want to hunt with you so I can learn something. I agree speck does run his mouth a little ragged, but when it comes to killing geese the right way, I will line him up with anyone.

    Have fun and good hunting! I am done. Keep at it guys. Like someone said before I hope they don’t come to Texas next year so I don’t have to have these arguments anymore.

    PS, I never thought I would type this much on this Refuge.
     
  4. Fetch

    Fetch Elite Refuge Member

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    Thats cause your trapped in one stage of hunting
    http://www.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla/personal/hunting/text/

    FIVE STAGES OF A HUNTER

    Hunters change through the years. Factors used to determine
    "successful hunting" change as well for each hunter. A hunter's age,
    role models, and his years of hunting experience affect his ideas of
    "success."

    Many hunters may fit into one of the following five groups. In
    1975-1980, groups of over 1,000 hunters in Wisconsin were studied,
    surveyed, and written about by Professors Robert Jackson and Robert
    Norton, University of Wisconsin-La Crosse. The results of their
    studies form a widely accepted theory of hunter behavior and
    development. Where are you now? Where would you like to be?

    SHOOTER STAGE

    The hunter talks about satisfaction with hunting being closely tied to
    being able to "get shooting." Often the beginning duck hunter will
    relate he had an excellent day if he got in a lot of shooting. The
    beginning deer hunter will talk about the number of shooting
    opportunities. Missing game means little to hunters in this phase. A
    beginning hunter wants to pull the trigger and test the capability of
    his firearm. A hunter in this stage may be a dangerous hunting
    partner.

    LIMITING OUT STAGE

    A hunter still talks about satisfaction gained from shooting. But what
    seems more important is measuring success through the killing of game
    and the number of birds or animals shot. Limiting out, or filling a
    tag, is the absolute measure. Do not let your desire to limit out be
    stronger than the need for safe behavior at all times.

    TROPHY STAGE

    Satisfaction is described in terms of selectivity of game. A duck
    hunter might take only greenheads. A deer hunter looks for one special
    deer. A hunter might travel far to find a real trophy animal. Shooting
    opportunity and skills become less important.

    METHOD STAGE

    This hunter has all the special equipment. Hunting has become one of
    the most important things in his life. Satisfaction comes from the
    method that enables the hunter to take game. Taking game is important,
    but second to how it is taken. This hunter will study long and hard
    how best to pick a blind site, lay out decoys, and call in
    waterfowl. A deer hunter will go one on one with a white-tailed deer,
    studying sign, tracking, and the life habits of the deer. Often, the
    hunter will handicap himself by hunting only with black powder
    firearms or bow and arrow. Bagging game, or limiting, still is
    understood as being a necessary part of the hunt during this phase.

    SPORTSMAN STAGE

    As a hunter ages and after many years of hunting, he "mellows out."
    Satisfaction now can be found in the total hunting experience. Being
    in the field, enjoying the company of friends and family, and seeing
    nature outweigh the need for taking game.

    Not all hunters go through all the stages, or go through them in that
    particular order. It is also possible for hunters who pursue several
    species of game to be in different stages with regard to each
    species. Some hunters feel that role models of good sportsmen,
    training, or reading books or magazines helped them pass more quickly
    through some stages.

    ---------------
    California Department of Fish and Game. "California Hunter Education
    Manual". 1995 (revised edition). Sacramento, California. [p.8]
     
  5. JEDJR

    JEDJR Elite Refuge Member

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    Hockley, I will agree, decoying dark geese and light geese is night and day.
    I will take a 40 yard shot on a snowgoose anyday!! :yes
    Its those shots that might look 55 that are really 75 that are considered skybusting.
    Hunters do need to be educated more on their guns, ammo and comfort zone when taking shots.

    I will admit I have made the mistake of taking shots alittle longer than I should on those snows that hang up over your spread at the 55-60 yard range or alittle longer.
    Its just frustration, Them snows can bring the worst out in you..
     
  6. Dog N Decoys

    Dog N Decoys Elite Refuge Member

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    I believe some of the stir-ers have become the stir-ees. :grvn :yes :tu
     
  7. Specgod

    Specgod Elite Refuge Member

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    :cry :cry That was a tear jerker....

    Thanks, You learned from the best Hockley :tu Getting you, a duck hunter, to convert to geese was like making a greyhound into bird dog. :l But you did turn out into a fine guide that kills with the best of'em.

    Coastal...well...as long as we can keep him away from the roost ponds and his so called "Combo Hunts" we will be alright.
     
  8. JEDJR

    JEDJR Elite Refuge Member

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    Fetch, With this in mind, Do you think them migrating back in these bigger numbers makes them easier to hunt as they move north?
    I know, and I am sure the guys from Texas can back me up on this, these birds are pressured and pounded down here for 3-4 months hard, and as far as running traffic on them down here, it is getting harder and harder.
     
  9. Texas Snow Goose

    Texas Snow Goose Elite Refuge Member

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    To any one that believes that I was referring to someone I know when I mentioned that there are people illegally hunting snows with e-callers, I wasn't. I would turn those AH's in in a minute. I have friends that hunt in fairly remote places and have seen it going on and have attempted to get them apprehended. I'm talking about way off in the boonies in CO, ND, SD, NB. On one occassion they could hear the e-caller and called the Game Warden. But you have to think, if some are getting caught then how many are doing it and getting away with it?
     
  10. Fetch

    Fetch Elite Refuge Member

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    30 yrs ago they came down in family groups 10 - 20 maybe up to 100 then as they got shot at they grouped up & found the same roosts that further grouped em up until it was time to leave & they were in Huge flocks - But let me tell ya they have always been hard to decoy, unless the wind or weather was in your favor - Fog - Low clouds or snow etc. - They are smart birds thats why you don't see em sitting on some city lake :no Sping is a strange time to hunt em - sure the electronic calls help & still being where they want to be is most important

    They come thru in long narrow flyway compared to Fall

    I've tried every set up you can imagine - & Sure once in awhile it all comes together But in General they don't decoy worth a damn & Guides have every excuse in the world as to why :yes If your in the best of the best places for em, sure some younger ones will screw up & come in & get Blasted - But having large flocks circle & do the flip flop down to your decoys is not as common, as many would lead you to believe :no - That is why decoying & the conservation Order are two different things & why decoy purest hate jump shooters. They are not in it to really Kill SOB's or to save the birds or Tundra & if $$$ is involved well that changes everything :cool:
     

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