spring subsistence hunting in Delta?

Discussion in 'Alaska Flyway Forum' started by RobR, Feb 23, 2005.

  1. dallen

    dallen Senior Refuge Member

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    On your dime by the way.

    I agree with you on this issue, believe me. I think there is a whole lot of abuse under the concept of subsistence. Most of us have other means to get food. We have jobs, earn money, and have a local safeway, AC store or what ever. I would have to say that the chances of completey getting rid of the spring harvest up here is about zero. So, the biggest chance we have is restricting the harvest to those that need it. I know a few people who got the mailers but do not participate in the hunt out of their own personal feelings towards this spring season.

    In fact the story I mentioned above about Tanana. A bunch of guys drove up in pickups to show us their piles of geese. These guys were both native and non native by the way. I am just guessing, but I bet the six of them had at least 150 geese piled in there (mostly canada's and specks). They then invited me and some of the others on the crew to go back out and "slaughter" some more (in their words). We of course, declined the invitation and they went on into the AC hardware and got a hot dog and chips. The trucks stayed parked there for 2 days, and then I left Tanana. I have no clue how long they actually stayed there.

    I'm really not against subsistence harvest, I'm disgusted at the abuse that goes under the sake of subsistence harvest. It comes down to pure greed. I can do it, you cant so you must be jealous is the attitude that I seem to pick up.
     
  2. birdartist

    birdartist Elite Refuge Member

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    just pointing the facts. i think people dont worry where their money goes because they never see it. if you got paid a full check and then tamika and her babies daddy showed up to get $ 100 and then so and so comes and get x amount you would be concerned. point is that is the typical american way. law and restrictions are in place and little to no enforcement of them and there is always those that abuse the system.we cant kill them, so i dont know how to fix it.sorry for the rambling and not offering any solution to the crap.just letting you know its something all over.
     
  3. shooter

    shooter Elite Refuge Member

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    wait... what???
    d a m n :mad:
     
  4. Drundel

    Drundel Elite Refuge Member

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  5. tbduck

    tbduck Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

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    This became a hot topic since yesterday when I looked at it.

    Drundel, in AK you don't need to be a native to do a lot of the sub hunting, it is more where you live, as others have pointed out. So it is not really a native or non-native issue here as dallen said. If you lived in one of these locations for a year you could do the spring hunts.

    But on the other hand yes the ducks/goose hunt in the spring is very abused and is not need in a lot of areas. The highway towns obviously don't need to hunt in the spring, but to throw more in the fire. What p*** me off more is the large groups of people that leave Fairbanks and go to bush villages to hunt. Go into Freds a week before the season and see how many cases of shotgun shells people are buying that live in Fairbanks year round except for spring duck season. What is worse is most of these people don’t bring meat back.

    I can’t image this will ever stop in AK and I am not sure all of it should, I think the best efforts would be to stop the highway town hunts. As others have said this is not needed. But there is still a group of trappers and natives out there that live in the bush and respect the land and they use the spring season for what it was suppose to be for. And I do not think these folks should not be allowed to shoot waterfowl in the spring. How to stop the abuse? Good luck. The troopers are sure not go to fly out to the bush towns and check to see who is breaking the law.

    And as others have said there maybe something in trying to stop certain species to be shoot, such as king eiders and other low populations.
     
  6. AKCAT

    AKCAT Senior Refuge Member

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    Well all of you bring up valid points as to what should be done to stop this. 3 years ago when all of this started I wrote a post on about every waterfowl site out there including this one, talked to DU, USFWS (many times) and it is clear that nothing was going to change. DU can't do anything other than to agree that yea it's a bad practice. I have met with a couple of guys from the state this winter regarding petitioning the USFWS over this matter. Like I said before this is not a new issue alot of work has been done to try and repeal this season but with no luck so far. Waterfowl are a international bird and Canada, Mexico and the U.S. all voted way back I belive in 99 to ratify the waterfowl treaty of 1917 to allow this subsistence hunting to start in the spring of 03, so this is MUCH more than a local issue.
    One of the most interesting conversations I had was with a fellow down in Anchorage who was heading this up, well the conversation started sour and ended even worse when he told me that this subsistence hunting was not for me and the other sport hunters but rather for natives who were responsible meat hunters. When he finished with his garbage I told him I was born and raised in SD and that I never seen a native do anything but abuse game laws.
    He also stated that politics got involved that wouldn't allow for just natives or true bush areas to participate. I have been in Delta four years and I can't remember ever seeing a native. But we do have russians and boy can they poach.
    I have seen some #'s from the USFWS on kill rates and they would scare the heck out of you, in 3 years it's averages out to way more than 150,000 birds and thats just the summer season. I am not going to speculate because I don't have the #'s available right now but trust me it was horrible.
    I did participate last year in the sub hunt, Aug 27 and 28 I hunted those two days killed one crane and a couple of geese, and I did like it. It gave me an opportunity to get out and chase some specks before they headed south and I think the state of AK could benefit on opening their goose season at the end of august to lengthen it out a bit, which I know they can't.
    But while were talking about subsistence hunting what about the guys who go out duck hunting in the regular season and kills their 8 or 10 birds per day and there all hens :mad: :mad: Whats different then the nats killing 100 geese in one day?? You figure at least thats 30 birds that will never fly and not to beat around the bush I think guys who do that are jack @$$es. I don't hunt ducks till about the third week in sept because its almost impossible to tell a hen from a drake apart. I have never seen such a lack respect for wildlife then I have in AK, I am not an advocate for the natives but it's not all them some of us need to look at ourselves in the mirror also.
    Well hopefully this will wake some of you guys up and just maybe we can get something changed.
     
  7. kodyb

    kodyb Senior Refuge Member

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    When I was in Delta I was told that mostly the russians take advantage of the spring hunt. I can not conferm that. I also was told that a local farmer there that also sets and or guides for geese and cranes allows and or makes money off of this.
     
  8. Drundel

    Drundel Elite Refuge Member

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    I've calmed down a little bit since first reading the .pdf. As I understand the idea of "subsistence" hunting it is to allow the people who are too poor to afford food to harvest it. If it is done solely based on where you live, then that really needs to be addressed and possibly changed to income levels or something like that. But with regards to what you are allowed to shoot, doesn't it make more sense to shoot one big game animal that could provide many many pounds of meet instead of gather many eggs and shoot many birds?

    Not sure why spring geese are even allowed to be shot. Do you guys even grow grain up here? If there are lots of native canandas that create problems like is occuring in a lot of places in the lower 48, then allow for an early season in the fall like they do. I saw specs and honkers up on the slope in Oct. If they were up here that long, I'm sure they were down in ANC area for that long too.
     
  9. TBinKodiak

    TBinKodiak Senior Refuge Member

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    Hey I can go shoot puffins!!!! :grvn
    I haven't seen much of it down here, but I know its legal. The whole subsistence thing is a mess that won't be solved for a very long time. AKCAT I agree with your point about the total lack of respect for wildlife up here. I've only been here 2 years and can't believe the amount of stupidity I've seen. I used to think skybusting was the ultimate sin, but the stuff I've seen here takes the cake. A DU sticker in your window doesn't make you a sportsman either. Especially if you're shooting seaducks out of season with a rifle. (just incase the guys I saw doing that last summer happen to read this) :mad:
     
  10. northern wings

    northern wings Elite Refuge Member

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    Yeah its enough to pi$$ you off...maybe if we all wrote them we'd get somewhere.
    Trevor, they were really shooting them with rifles? What is the fun in that? I woulda jumped up their @$$ if I coulda got close enough.
     

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