spring subsistence hunting in Delta?

Discussion in 'Alaska Flyway Forum' started by RobR, Feb 23, 2005.

  1. AKCAT

    AKCAT Senior Refuge Member

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    Drundel, its not all about food with subsistence. Subsistence was set up to carry on the tradition. The tradition of egg gathering has nothing to do with food but rather its more of a ceremonial gesture.
    KodyB yea personally I know of know one other than the russians that take part in the spring hunt, as far as the farmer goes never heard anything like that before.
     
  2. TBinKodiak

    TBinKodiak Senior Refuge Member

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    Corey, Actually they shot a murellet after missing the harlies. I didn't stick around to see how the "hunt" was going to progress since I don't mess around with drunks with guns. The wife and I were walking the dogs and her dog is gun shy so we just got the heck out of there. Its not hard to see why non-hunters hate hunting though.
     
  3. Drundel

    Drundel Elite Refuge Member

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    Fine, they can have indoor plumbing, electricity, and modern medicine or egg gathering. Not both.
     
  4. dallen

    dallen Senior Refuge Member

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    I'm not trying to get into a pi$$ing contest with you, but......Voluntary restraint is something that most waterfowlers do fairly natrually. When given the choice, I think most of us would want to limit out on greenheads rather than susies. But shooting hens as part of your daily limit and killing 100 geese a day during the spring are very different. Especially when you cant ID the sex of the bird for at least the first month of our fall season. For some birds such as pintail, I would bet that 90% or more of the birds are not identifiable as drakes or hens through our entire fall season. If we were strictly concerned with shooting drakes only in AK, it would make the most sense to have our hunting season in the spring.

    If you chose not to hunt until the drakes were starting to have color, that would give you about 3-4 weeks max to hunt ducks before freeze. 2 months to me is too short, cut it down to 4 weeks, no way. I imagine you have the option of shooting geese early, then switching to ducks. Generally, we dont have large numbers of geese in our area until Oct. so that is not a choice for us. How do you differentiate between a gander and a hen(?) goose. Does voluntary restraint only apply to ducks?

    Like I said at the beginning of this reply, I am not trying to get into an argument with you, I just dont think you can compare a guy shooting a few hens during the sport season, with someone shooting a ton of geese during the 'subsistence' season. I applaud all your efforts and work you do for the ducks. Voluntary restraint is a great idea. I practice it when I can tell the difference, but I do shoot some hens, especially when everybody is brown.

    As far as numbers of birds harvested in the spring. Do you have a link. I gotta think that the waterfowl managers gotta be taking that into account when establishing the season length. I hope so anyways.
     
  5. dallen

    dallen Senior Refuge Member

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    AKCAT, what are the links or contacts you have for petitioning the USFWS to change this hunt. I would be interested in joining the effort. Like you, I dont think this season is ever going away, but I think it can be tightened up a bit to prevent so much waste.
     
  6. kevlar-teal

    kevlar-teal Senior Refuge Member

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    Duck stamp monies can only be used for habitat purchases. The Alaska Region of USFWS gets no duck stamp funds. More than 50% of the funds go to the prairie pothole region.

    P-R funds go to the states. ADFG get the P-R funds and I doubt they directly put any P-R money into subsistence management of migratory birds.
     
  7. dallen

    dallen Senior Refuge Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. I'm not sure on your statement regarding the pr funds going to the state fish and game however, as the ADF&G are a member of the co management council AMBCC. I would assume part of the agreement requires money, but thats just a guess .

    Here is a link to the harvest surveys for the spring hunt


    http://alaska.fws.gov/ambcc/ambcc/Harvest/Subsistence EA 04_Spring Table.htm
     
  8. AKCAT

    AKCAT Senior Refuge Member

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    Dallen I don't follow your point, we freeze up here way before you guys do and I hunt more than a few weeks, in fact every year I have lived in Delta I have hunted ducks till the 15th of December. Granted I hunt geese sept 1 till thier gone which is usually by the end of sept.
    I'm looking for the numbers I found this link which is from 1992-2000. Must have been a different subsistence hunt then the current one as it only consisted of true villages. Anyway heres the links for the spring/summer subsistnece hunts and the fall/winter subsistence hunts. spring/summer [URL] [URL=http://alaska.fws.gov/ambcc/ambcc/Harvest/fall.winter.statewide.birds.PDF]Fall/Winter (The fall winter one I can't seem to get to hyperlink)The game board up here in Delta petitioned the USFWS and man with all the guys down there in the valley it might be the best thing you guys can do also. Get a group or so of guys and go to one of their meetings and see if they will offer their support.
    I am getting ready to go riding for the wknd, I'll make a call to a friend on the game board and see if he can round up the #'s for me and I'll post them when I get back on sun.
     
  9. Kusko

    Kusko Senior Refuge Member

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    There are a lot of misconceptions posted here on this topic. I live in the Y/K Delta where spring hunting has been going on forever and I have a pretty good handle on what is allow, why they do, and what we can do.

    Here are some things I'd like to point out that were misconceived throughout the postings on this forum:

    -You do not have to be native to participate in the spring subsistence hunts
    -This is not something new, it has been going on forever. The only difference is it is now legal and for a change has restrictions. Which, by the way, ****ed a lot of native folks off
    -They made it legal now so enforcement has a leg to stand on if they want to write a ticket. We have many enforcement officers out here during the spring hunt and they do write tickets.
    -egg hunting is not allowed in certain areas where birds congregate to nest. Emperor Island near the Baird Inlet is one example
    -no-no birds are not allowed to be harvested legally (Steller and Spectacled Eider and Emperor Geese)
    -most federal regulations must be followed (steel shot, 3 shells, no rifles, duck stamps, license)
    -in the future, they will have limits on the number of birds taken
    -most native folks in our area do not hunt waterfowl in the fall, they concentrate on big game
    -I've never received a mailer and I've lived here for 7 years, that must be some new for Delta
    -there is a cut off date (flightless and brood raising period) when they cannot be hunted



    I feel by making it legal and putting restrictions on the hunt will only benefit the birds in the long run. Hell, they weren't using steel shot out here until 1998. When did that go into effect? 1990? It is to our advantage to allow enforcement to do their job by having actual seasons and restrictions where before, they had their hands tied.

    Shoot me some questions and I'll do my best to answer them as a non-expert observationist from the Y/K Delta.
     
  10. bigreid

    bigreid Moderator Moderator

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    Thanks Kusko, I was waiting for you to shed some light on this. Have you seen any abuse of the system/wildlife while you have been out there?

    Also, there is a tread about this on the main board, you may want to read through that as it is quickly getting out of control with misinformation.
     

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