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Discussion in 'Idaho Flyway Forum' started by Toothshucker1, May 26, 2008.

  1. Toothshucker1

    Toothshucker1 Senior Refuge Member

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    Yeah, I know, some of you want this topic to go away. But I would still like to believe there are enough people out there the want to protect the quality of their hunting. It appears that Idaho is gonna be on a certain new waterfowling DVD. Comments pm'd to me in the past suggested that we were jumping the gun to think it would happen. I quess in the end money trumps courtesy to the everyday Idaho hunter. We get the accelerated pressure they get paid. I suppose those that helped get paid in their own way.

    So along these lines do any of you folks out there know if pro hunters that film on public ground are required to pay some kind of filming fee. I don't care of the fellas hunt here so much, it's gonna happen. But I would like to believe that those who will accelerate the decline in quality of our local hunting have to pay more than just liscence and validation fees.

    It appears that this is going to be a going trend, the filmers could give a rip about the locals as long as it suits their purposes.
     
  2. Wingnutty

    Wingnutty Elite Refuge Member

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    Although I will undoubtably attract ridicule with this post, I completely agree with you. Ultimately it is the commercialization of the sport that will kill it.

    That is part of the reason why I don't buy waterfowl DVDs, its my little way of not supporting the commercialization. Although I do hyporitically purchase new gear, ect, so ultimately, I'm guilty to a degree also.

    It is about $, but its also about status in the waterfowling world; "I hunted with so and so and showed him how good our hunting is". Its alot like all the 'Pros' and 'Field Staff' stuff. I'm personally not into it, thought about it at one time, but ultimately it doesn't interest me much. I don't begrudge people who are into it, but ultimately, after all the hype, ect, it really is about 'looking/acting cool'. And that is all well and good in its own right too. To each his own!

    I don't want to sound like I'm some kind of moral authority, because I am not and do not want to be. I am a hypocrite in many ways, just like most everyone else. I just see the way its all headed and think its kinda going in the wrong direction in some ways. I don't partake in those aspects of the sport and that is my choice, but I try not to judge others if they choose to do differently. As long as they aren't breaking the law, they can do as they please, but I hope people at least think about what they are doing before the do it:)

    But, anyone who does advertise our hunting shouldn't complain as the pressure continues to rise!
     
  3. HaydenHunter

    HaydenHunter Elite Refuge Member

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    Waterfowl vids are about continual birds in your face, bang bang, limits. Hey, I enjoy those days, but they are not to be had on every outing here in N Idaho. If you guys are taking the videographers on hunts where fast limits are to be had, that makes for good video. You are sowing the seeds of your own destruction. If you can live with that, cool.
     
  4. Toothshucker1

    Toothshucker1 Senior Refuge Member

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    I agree with you two. Personal vids fine, other than that bad. Although if you want to film on private ground and do a DVD for sale I don't have as much a problem with that. It's inherently locked up, and the general public, particularly the hunters of that state aren't the ones footing the bill for it's upkeep. Public land is a whole different ball game.

    The last couple of years I've heard nothing but griping about how many people are heading to Canada. Huh, wonder why, maybe it that every call maker, clothes maker, etc, etc., is making a video of hunting up there and everywhere else. It's not that difficult to figure out.

    And yeah, I'm a gear ***** as well. Change all the time. Pay lots of money.
    Sure sometimes if I know someone I might get a deal, but I don't sell myself or others out to get what I want.

    I don't have a personal gripe with Jeff, he really has seemed pretty nice. He has always been very courteous in his communications. Although I think guided hunting (and filming in partcular) is potentially crippling the future of the sport, I dont wish him ill personally or that his business fails. Just didn't think it cool to use our public areas to promote himself and possibly some tagalongs. I know they called it "just a hunt with a few friends" but as most of us suspected is was a bit more than that. Sound like guys are lining up at the trough for next year already. Most of the guys that are OK with it seem to buds or associates of some sort. Why should he or any of the other filmers care? They can crap here and move on. I've seen many of the celebrity duck gods preaching about ethics, and courtesy to other sportsman. I think this crosses a courtesy line a bit. Just because something is legal doesn't make it just.

    I don't expect this thread to become the hot button of the last one. I don't think you can change these guys minds. They will do what's in their best interest no matter what the effect on the everday hunter. If you buy the product great, if not, you're in the way. Funny how such a great tradition and sport became a cut throat business so quickly. It makes me fear for the future of hunting in general, but waterfowl specifically, particularly for our children and grandchildren.

    I don't blame all of waterfowl hunting's current woes on these guys out promoting themselves at the expense of the private, everyday duckhunter; but they aren't helping.
     
  5. salthunter

    salthunter Moderator Moderator

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    Idaho is on all sorts of DVD's not just waterfowling. Does it bother me,.. not really. Whos video are you referring too??
    Im glad Ben was up-front, because most of us are hypocrits to some degree.
    Do I want to keep guiding waterfowl out of Idaho,.. you bet, Wish we could do the same to clubs. Do I seceretly wish a non-resident tag was $200.00 or $400.00 yeah,.. but I also hunt in Idaho with family and friends from out of state,.... I bought my first Non resident Idaho tag in 95" because it was cheap,, I was able to hunt grouse two weeks before "my" openner. I was also able to hunt with family. But overall I dont think it will be much of an impact from non-residents,. I dont think most Idahoans realize there is lots of great waterfowling in neighboring states,.. Although many Utahns dont know it, they have some fantastic oppurtrtunities,.. And many of the Utahns that show up here is because of their family farm.
    The GSL holds huge numbers with lots of spieces,. Montana,.. that where most of my birds come from,..,Heck Wyoming is $5.00 for early geese. Wyomings and Nebraskas Platte River is incredible. And ND and SD with their prairie potholes lakes holds way more birds than most Idahoans could imagine. And Colorados front range typically holds ten times the late season geese as the whole state of Idaho 500,000 birds compared to our 50-75,000.
    The sky isnt falling
    And yes we will see more out of staters,... my only fear is leased property and out of state ownership by out of staters,.. but it wont stop me from hunting,.. I may need to switch back to ducks or spend more time big game hunting,.. But maybe we need to makes some changes to the law,.. non-resident already have to pay more if they want to hunt opening day rooster,.. why not waterfowl, or a non-resident waterfowl stamp
     
  6. Toothshucker1

    Toothshucker1 Senior Refuge Member

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    Your right there is lot's of good hunting in nearby states. I'm not even saying guys from out of state shouldn't be allowed to hunt here. At this point I'm not even advocating increases in nonresident fees. I hunt in other states. What I don't do (and wouldn't do) is advertise someone elses area for my own gain. That's what in effect happened (true, not the first time). That's the problem I have. These videos are advertising to enable more effective selling of a product (which may be a call or guided hunts) but it can cause added pressure on the hunting in that area. Maybe the filmers dont care, maybe they don't pay attention, I'm not sure. Either way the effect is the same.

    I'm not a big fan of guiding period, although I've met many a guide that I liked. I've been tempted to book some hunts before particularly for sea ducks or snow geese. Someday I may but I find it hard to do so. It's not the money that bothers me so much as contributing to something that I feel is killing hunting for most folks. I'm glad that its illegal in Idaho and if Idahoans are smart they will be vigilant to keep it that way.

    Clubs are a tricky thing. They can be a group of hunters that form an LLC to arrange leases and buy land. To me that's no different that anyone else buying land. I agree it would be nicer if it were like the good old days when you could knock on doors and get permission. I don't like some of Idaho's current "club" endeavours. They are walking a fine line and the management of the hunting is unclear to me.

    As far as the sky falling. I can't sit and watch this kind of crap without saying something. There are some folks around here that either haven't experienced this phenomenon or are just playing ostrich. I've seen the damage before and evetually it's going to happen here. I don't have illusions that those of us who oppose these activities will change the minds of the "money" hunters and their comrades but it doesn't mean we have to bow as they walk by and say nothing about it.
     
  7. Duck-Slayer

    Duck-Slayer Elite Refuge Member

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    as far away from u as possible!
    wow interesting topic, I don't mind people hunting in this state...hell i'm a transplant..... Yes I don't like out of stater's coming here but can't do a whole lot about it I guess, just wish those DVD's wouln't say where they are hunting....just show them the products they are trying to sell and that's it, oh and some good ol' duck or goose hunting also.......oh wait I just reread that and i'm a hypocrit I guess......
    D-S
     
  8. Wingnutty

    Wingnutty Elite Refuge Member

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    I don't have a problem with out of staters (oos'ers) hunting here, who can blame them? They bring $ to the economy and are generally pretty respectful. I hunt Montana a lot, so if I had a problem with OOSers then I guess I'd have a problem with myself:nutz

    I also don't have a personal probelm with guides for the most part. Most are good guys and give back to the resource. I do have a problem with the guides (both fishing and hunting) who use the resource but don't give anything back. We have plenty of fishing guides up here that pound the crap out of the Henry's Fork, rip up the boat launches and don't pay a penny back into the county ect:mad: There are always bad apples, but I try not to generalize.

    Like I said before, 'to each his own'. Most the guys who publicize our hunting aren't bad guys at all, quite the contray in fact. I think most of them do it because they LOVE waterfowling! I just hope people at least realize the potential affects they can have. Don't bring folks here if you don't want to see more folks hunting your spots:yes :l
     
  9. Toothshucker1

    Toothshucker1 Senior Refuge Member

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    WG, you're right there are some things that some guides do. I'm sure that in his Jeff does plenty to assist in conservation in Maryland, and I'm sure that other guides do the same. I respect the hell out of his photography skills and looks like he can carve a pretty good decoy. I don't like criticizing how one man makes a living, we all have to eat. Guiding is a funny thing. You do a sport for a living. But it's not like basketball. Micheal Jordan being who he was never prevented someone else from being able to pursue and excel in the sport. The current direction of guiding doesn't seem to be so benign. Land once available to many simply by asking or with a handshake, is locked up. Landowners used to ignore them but now the money has become so big it's tough for them to turn away from it. I've seen some outfits advertise that they are "preserving" the tradition. But, I'm not exactly sure who they think they are preserving it for; them and their clients, or the public as a whole.

    The guiding business (and gear promotion) has changed a lot over the years. I used to work with a guide and dog trainer when I was in high school (about 20 years ago). He had a few leases but he had access to a ton of private ground, some he had to share with other hunters. It never even occurred to him that he should exclude them from being able to hunt unless they were paying him, and even back then he wasn't the only guide in that area. I think that attitude has changed a lot. Almost all of that private ground is now controlled by guiding or clubs. We hunted all of that ground when we where teens with summer jobs. Most high school kids aren't going to be able to shell out $250 to go goose hunting for one day. I just think some activities are best left a sport or tradition rather than a business. There will always be the need for gear, boats, etc., but to me that's different than paying for the actual activity.

    I can't really see where the sport is heading in the future but I fear that it may be in big trouble. With increasing pressure, increased loss of habitat, and increase commercial enterprise in hunting, you have a trifecta that is only going to cause problems for the tradition of the "do-it-yourself" hunters.

    Guiding really isn't my primary focus with this tread. In Maryland it's legal. I pray it never happens here. If it does we might as well all get our guide liscences and cash in on the destruction. I'm not even trying to pick on Jeff alone. I brought him up because it was the most recent situation involving filming on public land for commercial gain. I could have just as easily aimed it at Buck Gardner. It's more of a general concern. More and more I get the feeling that the "big shot's" in waterfowling don't give a rip about the sport unless it's about promoting their professional interest.
     
  10. Wingnutty

    Wingnutty Elite Refuge Member

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    It is apparent that there are a lot of smart people on the Idaho board since many have viewed, but not many people wanna reply to this thread:yes :l :yes Come on, don't be scared:dv
     

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