The intolerant secular fundamentalists have their undies in a bundle - again

Discussion in 'Political Action Forum' started by KENNEDY63, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. KENNEDY63

    KENNEDY63 Elite Refuge Member

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    Indiana Religious Freedom Law Sparks Fury

    Gay-rights defenders say measure could result in discrimination

    By
    Mark Peters and Jack Nicas

    Updated March 27, 2015 7:34 p.m. ET

    The national spotlight is shining on Indianapolis, but a week early.

    Indiana?s largest city, which is preparing to host the NCAA Final Four, and the state as a whole face a growing backlash over a religious-freedom law that has drawn a hostile reaction from defenders of gay rights, who say it could result in discrimination based on sexual orientation.

    Calls to boycott Indiana dominated Twitter on Friday. Tourism officials in Indianapolis fielded an onslaught of questions from convention planners. And Apple Inc. Chief Executive Tim Cook and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton weighed in. Even the NCAA, which is based in Indianapolis and is planning to host more than 100,000 basketball fans next weekend, expressed concerns about what the law means.

    ?The reaction to this is startling in terms of its breadth?and to my mind?the extent to which the reaction is uninformed by the actual content of the law,? said Daniel O. Conkle, a professor of law at Indiana University Maurer School of Law.

    Measures similar to that signed into law by Indiana Gov. Mike Pence this week are already in place at the federal level and in some 30 states. The law covers a relatively complex issue?setting a legal framework for those who claim a government rule or requirement is hampering their exercise of religion.

    An example given by Mr. Conkle of such protections is a student who goes to court to keep his hair long for religious reasons in violation of a school dress code.

    But such laws, which are being considered in more than a dozen states, are being seen, particularly by gay-rights groups, as running afoul of anti-discrimination protections. They argue that the Indiana law could open the door for businesses to seek court protection not to provide services to gays and lesbians?or for landlords who refuse to rent an apartment to same-sex couples?on religious grounds.

    Mr. Pence dismissed the idea that the law was tied to gay rights or that it would allow discrimination. ?This bill is not about discrimination, and if I thought it legalized discrimination in any way in Indiana, I would have vetoed it,? he said.

    But the business community has delivered a rebuke to the law, with many big companies publicly criticizing the policy and saying they would re-evaluate their business in Indiana as a result. The response on Twitter has been fierce, with the #BoycottIndiana hashtag among the most used Friday.

    Celebrities from commentator Larry King to pop star Miley Cyrus criticized the law on social media. Actress and singer Audra McDonald wrote on Twitter to Mr. Pence: ?Some in my band are gay & we have 2 gigs in your state next month. Should we call ahead to make sure the hotel accepts us all??

    Indianapolis-based drug maker Eli Lilly & Co., which has 11,000 employees in Indiana, said the law ?is bad for Indiana and bad for business? and would complicate the company?s task in attracting top talent. ?Many of those individuals won?t want to come to a state with laws that discriminate,? the company said.

    Outside of Indiana, Silicon Valley executives have been some of the lead critics. Mr. Cook said on Twitter: ?Apple is open for everyone. We are deeply disappointed in Indiana?s new law and calling on the governor of Arkansas to veto the similar #HB1228,? a measure working its way though the legislature there.

    Salesforce Inc. CEO Marc Benioff said on Twitter Thursday that the cloud-computing firm was canceling all programs that would require its customers and employees to travel to Indiana and ?face discrimination.?

    Almost all of his dozens of tweets since Thursday have focused on the Indiana law, including calls to other executives to address it. Salesforce purchased Indianapolis-based marketing-software firm ExactTarget for $2.5 billion in 2013.

    State and city officials across Indiana sought to contain the backlash and any potential negative economic impact.

    Chris Gahl, a spokesman for Visit Indy, a nonprofit agency aimed at attracting businesses and tourists to the city, said Visit Indy has been calling all of the annual conventions scheduled for Indianapolis ?to reassure them just because a bill has been signed that our Hoosier hospitality has not gone away.?

    He said the group also met with Mr. Pence to tell him its concerns about the law and the response it has received from Indianapolis visitors.

    ?In the last 72 hours, we?ve seen an onslaught of emails, phone calls and face-to-face meetings from concerned convention groups and consumer leisure travelers over whether or not they?d be welcomed? in Indianapolis, Mr. Gahl said. ?This bill could impede our ability to retain conventions and to grow as a whole, and therefore impact jobs.?

    Most worrying, Mr. Gahl said, is that the Gen Con gaming convention, Indianapolis?s biggest convention with 56,000 attendees, is now considering leaving the state after its contract expires in 2020. Mr. Gahl said Gen Con creates an estimated $56 million impact a year for Indianapolis, and extending the convention?s contract is one of his agency?s top priorities.

    The law is also a hot topic in town, said Carrie Hawn, manager of Dave & Betty?s Diner in Indianapolis. ?All the customers were asking us what we thought about it today,? she said. ?We told them, to us, it makes no difference. A customer is a customer.?

    As for Mr. Conkle, the law professor, the firestorm remains baffling to some degree. He said he is a supporter of gay rights and of the bill, because it protects religious freedoms. He said the two goals aren?t mutually exclusive. And he doesn?t expect in communities such as Indianapolis, which have anti-discrimination ordinances, that a person?s claim of religious protection would outweigh the governmental interest in such rules.

    ?You basically have an overreaction, and that?s putting it mildly,? he said.

    Write to Mark Peters at mark.peters@wsj.com and Jack Nicas at jack.nicas@wsj.com
     
  2. sstrykker

    sstrykker Banned

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    Just an overreaction to past overreactions. People can only be pushed so far before enough is enough.
     
  3. eel river

    eel river Elite Refuge Member

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    Hmm, there is more to this then meets the eye from reading the article. I live here in Indianapolis and have followed this closely. It will take a while for this to play out. Likely, our governor who appears to have had White House aspirations has ended all hopes of that. What you don't likely understand is that many, many staunch republicans throughout Indiana, literally all of big business except the religious organizations and the Chamber of Commerce have all repeatedly spoken out against this bill. It has already and will continue to cost Indiana big time.

    Indiana's bill appears to actually go a little further then other states and the federal laws. Certainly, some of the angst over the bill is unwarranted but some of the concerns are not overstated. Much of the difficulty is what do you define religion as. And, as an example, will organizations refuse to hire someone who doesn't fit their religious beliefs but then turn around and serve that individual and take their money. Additionally, since this bill appears to extend this protection further then other bills, Governor Pence may have opened up Indiana as a place where individual police officers can refuse to serve and protect someone, or even a firefighter. I believe these things should have a balance and believe you will see that this bill becomes a lawyers dream because of the number of lawsuits that it will create.
     
  4. eel river

    eel river Elite Refuge Member

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    Additionally, I find it odd, if not outright funny, that we have not yet seen any major (only one small mom and pop here in Indiana) company that has come out and spoken in favor of this bill. I haven't seen one major conservative donor or figurehead outside of politics that has come forward and outspokenly supported this. This leads me to ask why not? Why aren't conservatives screaming loudly for support from those companies that they use or frequent. Is it really that the conservatives have become closet supporters? Why aren't they in essence pounding the "intolerant secular fundamentalists"? Just seems very, very strange. Even is signing of this bill you see the same situation. Many bills are signed with public fanfare, reporters and such at the signing. Not so with this bill. It was signed behind closed doors, in private. Why? There was no need for that. The many aspects of this makes it easy for people to be very suspicious. And remember, this comes right after the Governor appeared to have tried to set up a what many considered a State run news site (which he pulled when the public started asking questions). I personally don't care one way or the other but as the old saying goes, and with the reaction across the country, where there is smoke, there is fire. In time we will see.
     
  5. Lip Shooter

    Lip Shooter Elite Refuge Member

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    This is funny stuff. As ER said usually the final signatures of laws are a bid deal photo op and those fancy pens that come along with it.

    Who has the pens? Who will proudly display those pens? Maybe Kennedy wants them ha ha ha.

    I kinda hope I see some gay loving place refuse service to a gay person so they can say yep this law is real I can deny service to a gay.

    Then the next act.

    He he he another GREAT Big win for the conservative GOP. Wonder if those democraps will use this in the next elections ha ha ah.

    Sounds like that lawyer drafted the bill.
     
  6. Steve Borgwald

    Steve Borgwald Elite Refuge Member

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    Really? You might want to look at the first 10 seconds of this clip. Pretty crowded behind those closed doors.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/27/politics/indiana-religous-freedom-explainer/index.html

    And LS just latched right on to it. :l
     
  7. eel river

    eel river Elite Refuge Member

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    Pretty crowded? You obviously have lacked the opportunity for understanding how crowded other bill signings have been. AND, you might not have any insight into how many of those are from a narrow slice of industry. Again, if you have followed this for a number of weeks, you might have a better understanding as to the suspicious nature and timing. Additionally, there are very conservative folks here in Indiana that were against the bill with numerous major corporations and Chamber of Commerces. The Indi City-County council is drafting a piece against the bill. And additionally, where are the hundred or thousands showing up in support and where are the businesses speaking out in support. Not happening, which in itself tells you something is odd.
     
  8. Steve Borgwald

    Steve Borgwald Elite Refuge Member

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  9. eel river

    eel river Elite Refuge Member

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    When you review the language as compared to the federal law, be observant of the words related to individuals and corporations and in what context they appear to be written. It seems that some legal folks are suggesting that may be where issues start. Makes for interesting news here in Indiana.
     
  10. Steve Borgwald

    Steve Borgwald Elite Refuge Member

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    I understand that you said this.

    Who were all those people standing by Pence? You know, behind closed doors and in private. I count 18.

    Reminds me of your gyrations here:
    http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showpost.php?p=10121050&postcount=157
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015

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