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Discussion in 'Canadian Hunters Forum' started by golden boy, Oct 23, 2007.
My dander gets up a bit when the whole greedy thing comes up. My bad.
I've hunted with CJOCN before, and he and I see things from a different perspective. I have a lot of friends up here, both native and non-native, that eat nothing but wild meat. Nothing store bought. The one friend makes a hot and sour soup that he eats every day in the winter for breakfast, about a mallard a day by my estimation. Until I moved up here, I never heard of anyone "gifting" birds before. Personally, I have my goose sausages and pepperettes, pepperonis, goose hamburgers, duck jerky, duck sausage, on a very regular basis now. Between my famly's licenses, I am allowed 48 ducks, 45 Canada or Specklebelly geese, 240 snow geese, and 30 sandhill cranes. I don't have enough freezer space for all those. I do shoot a lot of ducks, but if you look at the dates I post, I don't shoot every day, as I have to make sure I don't go over my possession limits.
As long as it doesn't get wasted, I don't have a problem with people taking birds daily. They can give them away on a regular basis as well, as long as the majority of the birds are consumed by themselves. I have native friends that take ducks, but somedays they come home and find 48 on their doorstep (gifted by a hunter who dumped them on their doorstep) that they don't have time to clean....off to the dump. I've found piles of birds at the edge of the valley , or at the dump off the Moose lake road left to rot.
A lot of the hunters I have met use their time in Canada as an "early" season, and a lot shoot 60-100 days down in the states as well. A friend from Missouri told me he shoots 6-8 cases of shells a year at ducks....and he is a very good shot.
I certainly didn't mean to include you personally, and I apologize if I did so. I know a lot of good ethical hunters from the states, and some , especially the guys who have been here the longest, come up to enjoy the fishing and upland hunting, and don't even hunt waterfowl daily. If it sounded like I was speaking about you personally, I wasn't. I would be more than happy to meet and hunt with guys like you and Ken. I'm sure we would get along just fine in a duck blind.
I guess it's me venting at the ones that I know would just as soon leave the birds on the marsh.
Would you have any objections to a limited license in terms of time?
3,4,7,14 days? Renewable once?
Actually Kennedy, after re-reading your posts, I like your suggestion. Perhaps each time you buy another set of tags, you would also pay a premium that could go directly into conservation or to DU or delta.
Now this is the conversation I was looking for.
Your last post hits the nail on the head. Right now there is a push on the U.S. side to "accelerate" the federal duck stamp funds by borrowing from other parts of the government, and repaying with future duck stamp revenues - the idea being that conservation isn't going to get any cheaper.
One of my post season projects is to push for conceptually the same thing stateside as you mentioned - a "renewable" federal duck stamp - $15 a pop per possession limit, with the funds plowed solely back into conservation. Pay to play.
Back to the provinces - I personally have no problem with the residents NOT being subject to the same tag restrictions as NR's, even though a good shooting local boy will put more birds in the skillet for the year than 95% of the NR's. If the NR's want the "perk" of an "unmonitored" take, move there.
IMO, for the benfit of the resource, something needs to be done to limit bird take (especially mallards and dark geese) north of the border. We are just too good at killing birds these days.
We certainly are more efficient at killing these days. Technology has made our abillity to kill birds that much better by leaps and bounds. Better gun technology, back boring, overboring, extended chokes, all contribute to better patterns. Highs speed steel, hevi shot, and other shell technology have returned us to more efficient killing loads than ever before. Decoys have evolved , giving us fully flocked birds, motion decoys, roboducks, spinners, motion stakes, etc. Other than live birds, these things are as real as they get. With the use of mud motors and atvs, we can now access areas that with ease that were next to impossible to get to before. GPS technology, satellite imagery are more tools to let us find the hidden spots and holes where ducks could previously hide. Camo patterns of all types , and new layout blinds allow us to hide from the wary eyes of the ducks.
I am a firm believer that most hunters are more efficient now, than a generation or two before. The hunters coming up into Canada, for the most part, are hard core hunters, and fall into this class. I've yet to hunt with any who I would not classify as very good to excellent shots.
I would fully support a tag system, and if the residents had to renew the tags at a cost, I would be fully prepared to pay in order to "play". I wouldn't have any problem with it, especially if the funds generated were directed back into wetlands conservation .
For a thread jacking, this turned out well.
The majority of hunters I meet from the states are killers. They want numbers, they hunt as much as they can while they are here, and most I have met gives their birds away, with some notable exceptions.
The majority of people from Canada that post on web sites are killers. They want numbers post picture's of limit after limit and hunt as much as they can before feezeout and most resident people I have met in Canada aside from the web-sites don't eat any migratory game what so ever. If you don't belive me maybe a trip to the Quill Lakes region will make you a believer.
I understand your concerns. If I from your area I would probably be annoyed by all the americans coming up and pressuring your land and birds. I really doubt there are too many guys logging 100 days in the field per year. If there are, than I am doing something wrong. Most americans are lucky if they to get a once a year trip to your country. I imagine the types you are referring to are a very small minority of those that travel to canada to hunt waterfowl.
As far as Americans just coming up to kill, I think there are some that go to do that, but not all. When I go, it is not just to kill, it is to enjoy nature, to enjoy seeing the migration, to spend time with family and friends. If we shoot some birds sweet, if not that is okay too. But it is hard to go to Canada and not shoot birds. I have had people ask me for birds while up there. We have given birds to people that the local church told us were in great need. I will never forget how greatful a single mother of 4 was to recieve fresh meat for her kids. I never met a more greatful person. That alone was worth the trip to me. Plus where I live it isn't very easy to get good goose hunts. So bringing back some geese to enjoy is also a plus. So I find it hard that some (mind you not all people in Canada) are trying to make it harder for Americans to hunt in their country. When millions of dollars are pumped into their economy because Americans do come over the boarder to hunt. I know of a small hotel owner in SK that said if it wasn't for the American hunters that come up each fall he would go under. He said in the few months each fall he makes enough money to live on for the rest of the year. He is a big supporter of freelancing Americans. I love Canada and it's people, I am not pointing fingers at anyone. I just want you all to know where I stand on this issue. I don't like hunters that waste game, no matter what country they may live in. And don't forget if those birds didn't have quality winter grounds, there wouldn't be many to migrate back north to breed. We all spend money to help the cause.
That's for sure! This is the longest thread the Canadian Hunters Forum has had in quite a while. Not much related to "Things I learned from Canada" interesting to see the thread last so long without getting locked, deleted, or otherwise shut down.
I'm a proud Canadian and ethical hunter (I think). I post somewhat regularly on a few sites, but have only posted photos once or twice. The first time I posted a photo was a couple years ago - it was from my ONE goose hunt that year, and I managed to score a triple on the first flock in. I was really excited, because I had never done so before. Let me say again, that was the ONLY goose hunt I was on that year, and that one flock was the entire hunt because the Canada Goose limit in northern Ontario is 3 birds. I like getting a limit, because it means more birds in the freezer or on the BBQ, but I'm just happy to get out. I don't live in the prairies with their mecca of birds, but I still live in Canada. In a really good year, I might hunt more than 10 days, but those years are not common. I DO try to get out as much as I can before things freeze up, which in my part of the country happens before most of the regular seasons even OPEN in the lower 48. We see a lot of American hunters in Canada every year, but I don't hear of too many Canadians traveling south to follow birds as things freeze up here - I don't hear Texas or Louisiana or other southern states crying because the Canadian hunters aren't traveling down there to "pump millions of dollars" into their economies. You would think if we were all "killers" that we would want to hunt all year, and really look for some of the December-January hunting in the states...or maybe there aren't enough "killers" in Canada to get noticed.
You're right about one thing - I DO believe that most resident people in Canada DON'T eat migratory birds, or other wild game because most people in Canada don't hunt. You could probably fit all the resident Canadian migratory bird hunters into just ONE U.S. college football stadium. Those that do hunt, eat wild meat. Landowners and farmers may not want to eat game - just because they own property that hosts thousands of migrating waterfowl or herds of deer doesn't mean they are hunters, or are interested in eating wild game. Maybe they are, but if they aren't, that's their perogative. If I had a barn full of cattle in a tough market, I probably wouldn't care much for wild meat either. Did you meet any resident hunters in Canada, or just "residents"? I have visited a lot of places in the U.S. and most of the PEOPLE I met there didn't eat wild meat, or have any interest in eating wild meat. But, ALL of the HUNTERS I met in the states did.