This Week's S/S question part 2

Discussion in 'Christian Forum' started by Sinkbox<><, Feb 8, 2006.

  1. Sinkbox<><

    Sinkbox<>< Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    499
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Location:
    Virginia
    Well our S/S trucker who wanted to be assured of his present salvation (not OSAS) just the "Blessed Assurance" that he's really saved asked the class....

    "Are you guys sure that even Jesus' disciples were saved?"

    They all said ...they felt they were.
    "So you guys feel pretty sure these apostles were saved?"
    Yeap they all said...as sure as we can be.

    He said....Judas Iscariot was, at one time, both an apostle (Mt. 10:2) and a disciple of Christ (Mt. 10:1)....yet he didn't seem to sure even if the Lord Jesus did: 25Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?" Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."

    He asked us didn't we think, "In the beginning didn't Judas think he was "saved too?" He said, "Surely he must have made a profession of faith to our Lord and been baptized. He gave up everything and followed Jesus as the others did --went out and did all those miracles 2X2 and Jesus spoke of him as he did the others that you guys say you guess were saved"(ref-ing And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother (Mt. 12:49,50, KJV).

    :cool:

    Sinkbox<><
     
  2. Lowtide

    Lowtide Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    9,628
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    John 6:70

    70Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?


    Jesus knew his heart. I don't think Judas was saved.
     
  3. silvermallard

    silvermallard Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    3,682
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Location:
    Hawaii
    And it is pure speculation as to whether Judas thought so or not at any given time.
     
  4. TPM

    TPM Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    1,818
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Location:
    South Eastern Ontario, Canada
    We can easily state that Judas was NEVER saved.

    First, despite the naysayers, once a man is saved, he cannot be lost.

    Second, as Andy has already pointed out, the Lord knew his heart. We have further:

    1 John 2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    True believers continue on and false believers do not.

    John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

    Judas believed not.
     
  5. Davy Hunt

    Davy Hunt Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    1,515
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    Mississippi
    I thought TPM didn't believe in predestination. Wonders never cease!
     
  6. TPM

    TPM Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    1,818
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Location:
    South Eastern Ontario, Canada
    I don't believe in predestination to salvation and it is not implied in the verse I quoted. It simply means the Lord knew Judas' heart and was not fooled by him. He knew he was not saved. That has nothing to do with predestination to salvation.
     
  7. onionhead

    onionhead Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

    Messages:
    1,288
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Location:
    DEEP East Texas
    1 And having called to him his twelve disciples, he gave to them power over unclean spirits, so as to be casting them out, and to be healing every sickness, and every malady.....4Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who did also deliver him up. Matthew 10 YLT

    It is impossible to be a disciple of Christ and not be a real follower of Christ ... Jesus said, "and whoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, is not able to be my disciple." Luke 14

    Judas was specifically named as one of the twelve (Matt 10). So Judas did bear his cross for it is a defining charactersitic of a disciple (Luke 14) and Judas was plainly named as a disciple.

    John 6:64 but there are certain of you who do not believe;' for Jesus had known from the beginning who they(PLURAL) are who are not believing, and who is he(SINGULAR) who will deliver him up, YLT

    John 6:64 NIV Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them(PLURAL) did not believe and who(SINGULAR)would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." ..
    Scripture seperates those(PLURAL)who were not believers from "he"(SINGULAR)that would betray Him. Judas is not named among the non-believers but is seperated from them by scripture.

    John 6:66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him .... Here is a plain, crystal clear, Scriptural example of some who were following - turned their back on Jesus Christ - and quit following Him. Judas was not one of these for the Scriptures do not count him among those that turned back from following but instead counts Judas among those who believed.

    Acts1:15 KJV And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said ...... 25That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place ..... Peter, who Jesus once called Satan, plainly states, in the Scriptures, that Judas was BOTH part of the ministry AND an apostle. How much plainer can it get ????
     

Share This Page