Tony Toye sentance handed down

Discussion in 'The Duck Hunters Forum' started by h2ofwlr, Oct 3, 2017.

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  1. brentbullets

    brentbullets Elite Refuge Member

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    Like when a undercover agent buys crack cocaine from a drug dealer they know is selling drugs and they need evidence and proof to prosecute?
     
  2. buck_master_2001

    buck_master_2001 Elite Refuge Member

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    Not anywhere near the same. So you think it’s ok for a fed to rearrange the bird piles and take a picture then use that picture to claim group bagging? Is that ok in your book?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  3. cholt

    cholt Senior Refuge Member

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    They will find anything if they are gonna try to stick you and make sure they make their case. They need to sit back and see how much state out of liscense sales that the guides are bringing in for the state and give them a hand shake for making sure they have a pay check not trying to put petty stuff on them
     
  4. Ron Gilmore

    Ron Gilmore Elite Refuge Member

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    First I haven't weighed in on this for a couple reasons. I don't know what happened, but regardless of the speculation, the case proved to be valid enough that he chose to plea to lesser charges. Whether intentional or simply poor judgement at the time he and his attorney decided it was better to take the plea than risk a jury trial.

    This is not TV or fantasy people and I know that many wont like to hear this but guides are routinely checked in this manner. If nothing hinky happens they don't make up evidence to take a guy down. Toye may not be an outlaw like others in the business have been but he broke laws and is paying the price for doing so.

    I have little love for commercial operations that are making a living off of this resource. This comes from watching and dealing with so many that have been outright outlaws. They marketed and pushed the killing aspect seeking out people willing to pay for the opportunity to fill a blood lust. From wanton waste of game so the shooters could continue to shoot to no regard for limits or species restrictions.

    Knowing what they had to do to prove those cases is why I believe they had the goods on Toye. You always hear the side of the accused and few ever admit they did the deed! Even when they plead guilty and the mountain of evidence against them makes it clear they did the deed. They claim they took the deal vs risk being convicted. Well if you did not do the act, then a jury will not return the guilty verdict with the reasonable doubt clause. Conviction requires a very high standard of proof.

    So like it or not Toye admitted to the acts he plead to as a way to minimize the charges he knew a jury would find him guilty of! Hope this ends this stupid tirade of claims of frame up!
     
    h2ofwlr, Zane and WHUP ! Hen like this.
  5. Montauker

    Montauker Elite Refuge Member

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    Ron I agree with you to a certain extent, particularly about the extra scrutiny aspect. However, I think most here if given the option between risking a felony beef (no voting, not more hunting, no more guns, credit issues, etc) vs. paying the $25K and walking away would do it.

    This situation, as presented here stinks.

    As for the comparison to a drug dealer. What if a client of your's shows up in your office and asks if he can smoke crack, you say no. He asks again, you say no. He lights up the pipe anyway and leaves a little bit on your desk, then turns around and arrests you for possession of crack.
    That is what happened here, as reported.
     
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  6. h2ofwlr

    h2ofwlr Elite Refuge Member

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    if you allow an employee to break the law while on the clock - will you as an employer be responsible for their actions? According to the courts - YES.
     
  7. buck_master_2001

    buck_master_2001 Elite Refuge Member

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    Actually that’s not the way it went down. Did you read Mr. Mann’s response? They hung the felony over his head knowing they would take the plea. You decide not to take the plea and they confiscate all guns, ammo and hunting privileges right away. Then they draw out the case costing more innlawyer fees then just taking the plea for a misdemeanor. It’s a tough call because either way you are screwed. At least this way you can go back to your business and livelihood.

    So I’ll ask you, Ron, what charges were avoided by taking the plea?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  8. Ron Gilmore

    Ron Gilmore Elite Refuge Member

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    The situation occurred because of his actions or inaction! I know of many guides in ND that are offered extra under the table money to look the other way or allow others to group hunt. They don't, they have reported this and those they where guiding where refunded unused money and sent packing.

    Tired of people making excuses when people fail to follow laws. Rules and regs regarding guiding are clear, he failed to follow them. He put himself in that situation. Nobody else. So the felony threat would not have existed had he been following the rules!!!


    Hey if I can take young novice hunters afield and keep the bag limit and species and such straight, then certainly it is not to much of a stretch to expect a licensed experienced guide to do the same with adults!!
     
    Zane and h2ofwlr like this.
  9. Rice Hunter

    Rice Hunter Senior Refuge Member

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    There is smoke and fire in this thread.

    I had no idea that BM2001 was Toye. Guess it makes sense.
     
  10. h2ofwlr

    h2ofwlr Elite Refuge Member

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    I did not say it clearly, what I meant has been expounded to and is in bold below. (the 1/2 hr time limit to edit had passed as it was 31 minutes when I saw it and went ooops.

    They were leasing at LQP 40 yrs ago
    The field west of the TC area that I had for a handshake and a thank you note 9+ yrs ago went for $5K to an outfitter.
    That next summer I put on 900 miles in 2 weeks and found 5 active feeds for early geese. 2 were leased, 2 already had hunters hunting and 1 was an anti hunter. I did not even count nor ask the fields that were posted up already. For the amount of time I took off scouting and lost time from work and miles driven I could have gone to ND hunting and come up way better off. So 40% were leased. That is land that rank and file hunters do NOT have access to.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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