Trainer needs help!

Discussion in 'Gun Dog Forum' started by SilverTip, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. SilverTip

    SilverTip Senior Refuge Member

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    Here’s the scenario. I have a 6 ½ month old blf from good breeding. From the moment I got her at 7 weeks, she would only retrieve a dummy if I had her very excited about it. (I used Hillman’s technique to get her excited.) Even then she would often run out to a bumper and run right past it. When she did pick it up she would roll it and chew it. The only way she would give it up was by pinching her flank. I hoped force fetch would cure these issues. Even when I threw a pigeon for her when she was younger, she would do the same. I quit using birds (only did it twice-one live and one dead) again, hoping I would solve this at force fetch.

    I decided I should use Evan’s system as I used it on my last blf with great success. Her obedience is quite good and she has been collar-conditioned to here, kennel, etc.

    However, at step one, teaching her to hold I'm having issues. I’ve had two lessons with her. (I know it's early, but I want to make sure Im on the right track.) She reached for the paint roller immediately but then rolls it in her mouth and won’t stop and of course, wont hang on to the roller.

    My solution is to move to force fetch and avoid the hold issue that way, while teaching her to hang on to the dummy and stop rolling and biting it. (This rolling and biting particularly bothers me.)

    I appreciate any suggestions and help.
     
  2. Swampcollie

    Swampcollie Elite Refuge Member

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    Look around for a very old video by Jim Dobbs call Hold. It differs a bit from Evans stuff, but as the saying goes one more arrow in the quiver can't hurt. You might see something you could use.
     
  3. SilverTip

    SilverTip Senior Refuge Member

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    Thank you Swampcollie. I will look it up. I've only trained one other lab who turned out wonderful. These antics just throw me.
     
  4. Timber Hole

    Timber Hole Senior Refuge Member

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    You've only done two hold sessions and decided the dog isn't doing the right thing so you're going to skip hold and move to force fetch? And this is after already trying to force fetch one time before? Did I read all that correctly? If so, you aren't following Smartworks.
     
  5. Doc E

    Doc E Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

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    Follow the plan.....No jumping around.
    .
     
  6. KwickLabs

    KwickLabs Elite Refuge Member

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    I wrote up a post yesterday and delayed "putting it up". Sometimes it is better to just not say
    anything. However, your situation is not unlike a lot of trainers working there second dog. The
    first one went really well and training a dog seemed to be an "easy do". When the next one is
    very different, training takes on a totally new "look" and it can be quite awhile before coming
    to the conclusion that not all pups are easy (for the inexperienced). Don't ask me how I know
    this. :reader"

    "Easy" means you know how to adjust to the needs of that specific, new pup in front of you.
    From the below, you have not adjusted. Actually, this pup will force you to become a teaching
    trainer. However, that will be on you......not the pup.

    "Here’s the scenario. I have a 6 ½ month old blf from good breeding. From the moment I got her at
    7 weeks, she would only retrieve a dummy if I had her very excited about it."
    From day one, you were not happy with her retrieving.

    "I used Hillman’s technique to get her excited".
    But you did not use all of his puppy intro.

    "Even then she would often run out to a bumper and run right past it. When she did pick it up she
    would roll it and chew it."
    Still not happy with her. Hillmann was not done correctly (not her fault).

    "The only way she would give it up was by pinching her flank."
    That is not “cool” (or necessary) especially with a very young pup.

    "I hoped force fetch would cure these issues."
    Hope is not a useful approach when teaching and training.

    "Even when I threw a pigeon for her when she was younger, she would do the same. I quit using birds
    (only did it twice-one live and one dead) again, hoping I would solve this at force fetch."
    Still not happy about her and your "hoping" approach surfaced again. Force fetch does not
    solve “stuff” that is not taught properly (refer to previous comment).


    "I decided I should use Evan’s system as I used it on my last blf with great success."
    Comparing one dog to another is often a critical error. Evan's program does work.
    However, this pup is different than your last. Adjusting to this pup will continue to
    be an issue unless you do what she needs.


    "Her obedience is quite good and she has been collar-conditioned to here, kennel, etc."
    Evidently she can learn “stuff”.....if taught properly.

    "However, at step one (teaching her to hold) I'm having issues. I’ve had two lessons with her. (I know
    it's early, but I want to make sure I am on the right track.) She reached for the paint roller immediately but
    then rolls it in her mouth and won’t stop and of course won’t hang on to the roller".

    "My solution is to move to force fetch and avoid the hold issue that way, while teaching her to hang on to the
    dummy and stop rolling and biting it. (This rolling and biting particularly bothers me.) ?????"

    Modifying Evan's program is not what your pup needs. Your pup would forever thank you if.....
    you found a teaching mentor to help you sort this out. It is not the pup.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  7. SilverTip

    SilverTip Senior Refuge Member

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    Thanks everyone for your replies.
    a) "And this is after already trying to force fetch one time before?" I have not tried to force fetch this pup.
    b) I also hesitated before I posted this request, as I expected I was holding myself up for ridicule. So be it. I stated this was early in the process of "hold". I was looking for direction in moving forward. Getting to an experienced trainer does not seem possible. But I will see what I can do.
    c) "Hope" is a synonym for "expected". I have read everything I can get my hands on. From what I read, it appeared Evan's force fetch should clear up the mouthing issues.
    d) My suggestion was just that -a suggestion of a possible direction. I expected and hoped that someone here would give me direction on how to move forward on my own. This, Swampcollie did. Thank you.
    e) I hope I'm not coming across as ungrateful. I recognize this pup is different and want to move forward in an appropriate direction. I don't want to screw it up. I know it is not the pup. If it was I would not be asking for input.
     

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