Training Question

Discussion in 'Gun Dog Forum' started by Hogleg, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. EvanG

    EvanG Elite Refuge Member

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    Did you start with dead pigeons first? How did that go? You're not trying to make them like what you think they should like. You're trying to find their hot button.

    EvanG
     
  2. Hogleg

    Hogleg Senior Refuge Member

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    With the pigeons we did not start with a dead pigeon. After the pigeon attempt I did use a dead duck, which she enjoyed immensely.
     
  3. Hogleg

    Hogleg Senior Refuge Member

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    Moved on to CC to here with Mattie. I have had two sessions so far. After the first session when I was finishing the process, if I nicked her she would bolt, or run to whoever was closest. Did another session and she is most definitely moving with purpose, even when no pressure is applied while on the double check cord. Last night while training she did not hesitate when given the here command, so i did not need to use the nick.

    My fear is the next here nick here causes her to try to run away. If that happens what's my next move? I've conditioned her to the here command but I'm not 100% certain she understands that coming to me will shut off the pressure.

    I got the reaction I was looking for during the cc to here sessions, per Smartwork, it is during the clean up with the collar only i have the problem.
     
  4. Timber Hole

    Timber Hole Senior Refuge Member

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    I'll be interested in others responses but in my opinion if your dog doesn't know how to turn off the pressure you have not done an adequate job of teaching. According to the program I'm following.....teach, force, reinforce. I don't think it's productive or fair to the dog to be forcing or reinforcing if the task has not been adequately taught. I'm fairly new to all this so that advice is probably worth what you paid for it but that's my opinion based upon what I've learned to date.
     
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  5. eugene molloy

    eugene molloy Senior Refuge Member

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    Hogleg,

    You really are piling into a young dog, what is she, 22 weeks? Chessies can be a bit slow to come into themselves anyway, so for pities sake, slow down, and think carefully about each step. Taking a young dog to a trap shoot for gun experience is a potential disaster; it seems you got away with it but I wouldn't repeat it.

    Echoing Timber Hole above, your dog should have a much stronger return / recall performance than she apparently has, taught without any collar pressure.

    Perhaps Evan can chime in again on the avoidance and uncertainty issue; I don't collar train.

    Eug
     
  6. Hogleg

    Hogleg Senior Refuge Member

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    I'm hoping Evan does as I'm following Smartwork, he says cc to here at around 4 months, which she is, almost 5. She understood/understands here, I believe. I'm not arguing, just my thoughts. We'll work forward slowly from here.

    Regarding the trap shoot intro to gun fire, perhaps I can explain further. I didn't take her up to the scorer's chair and ask her if she liked it. It was a junior high trap club practice. We played way off in the distance fetching a paint roller. We worked our way closer over two different practices. Smartwork says around 16 weeks, it was pretty close to that and very soft intro.

    I was fiddling with her e-collar last night and determined that the way I was testing the levels was not very accurate. I'd wet my wrist to see how the pressure felt. I tried it on my neck and what I thought was a very low pressure was in fact not so low.

    Thanks for your help all!
     
  7. eugene molloy

    eugene molloy Senior Refuge Member

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    Thanks for that .. you did it the right way.

    Eug
     
  8. EvanG

    EvanG Elite Refuge Member

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    Just so that I understand what's going on with your pup, you had two formal sessions using the two rope set up, and moved on to a field situation where you reinforced 'Here' with a nick from the collar? How soon after your formal sessions? At what level of stimulation? What e-collar are you using?

    EvanG
     
  9. Hogleg

    Hogleg Senior Refuge Member

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    Yes on the two formal sessions with two rope set. Shortly after the first session, same trip, tried the "here" with nick. Similar timing after second formal session, which was two days later. Thursday then Saturday.

    Since then she has been returning on the here command without any nicks needed. I did get a chance after returning home from an obedience session. This was 3 - 4 days after last formal session. She went to the door, here, no response, here nick here, and she responded. Hopefully this all makes sense.

    Regarding the collar. I have a Dogtra ARC. The 1 - 127 rheostat. We've had this discussion before, I don't care for the unit. I started on 10 and made it up to 20 during the sessions. I believe that the pressure at 20 is simply too much and I don't get the intended response. The pressure was down to 15, iirc, when she responded properly.

    I liked the look of the ARC wetland, when funds allow it may be replaced with something else. However, I think I have a handle on the amount of pressure needed which I believe was my problem.

    Thanks again for your time Evan.
     
  10. EvanG

    EvanG Elite Refuge Member

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    By all means I suggest replacing it with a pro 550. Better quality, better function.

    I wish I could see a session, or be there personally to understand better how the dog reacted. On one hand part of the purpose of doing this is pressure conditioning. The other part is enforcing "Here". If you hide from pressure because of the dog's reaction you may have gone backwards. It's hard to tell. But with so little formal work on it there doesn't seem to be adequate exposure to be doing follow up in the field. I generally suggest 1 or 2 formal sessions at least, followed by 3-5 days of follow up sessions as prescribed on the Obedience DVD. If you get to KC sometime soon we might do well to spend some time together.

    EvanG
     

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