Tungsten Spheres 18g/cc shells

Discussion in 'Turkey Hunters Forum' started by stuwest, Sep 14, 2009.

  1. Hoytman

    Hoytman Elite Refuge Member

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    I want to start reloading my own shells. Just can't afford stuff in the stores anymore. I have access to a RCBS Grand, a few MECS as well, none of which are designed for steel, I don't think. I'm told I need a steel reloader, which I don't mind to buy. I also have access to many kinds of wads, hulls, primers, and powder. I just need your recommendations on a loader (thinking mec steel) and the shot.

    How many of you are using TSS or the stuff from Tungsten Spheres? What sizes do you recommend for geese (shot that is)? Are there cheaper places to buy this stuff? Any new shot that you'd recommend?

    My main concern is getting a good load that will pattern well and lay the smack down on passing geese out of my 935.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Jake Windemere

    Jake Windemere Senior Refuge Member

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    Replacing the lead pellets with the same weight of tungsten super shot or tungsten spheres in a factory loaded shotshell is a recipe for disaster.

    Hard shot, like steel and tungsten alloy, does not setback like lead. When you put a harder-than-lead shot in a lead load you will will experience a serious chamber pressure spike at the beginning of the gunpowder burn. I would not be surprised if Stu's loads generate enough pressure to take apart a lesser gun.

    Stu, you should see if you can get someone with a pressure gun to test your shells. You are probably firing proof loads, or hotter.

    Unless you have access to a pressure gun (I use an Oehler Model 43 Personal Ballistics Lab with three 12 gauge barrels equipped with strain gages) I would only fire factory loads or those loads which appear in a reputable reloading guide.
     
  3. stuwest

    stuwest Elite Refuge Member

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    Understand the issue and was concerned on my first shells. If the pressures were significantly higher, the recoil would be noticably higher and it is not, in fact, if anything is lower.
    If you are voluntering your pressure gun, i'll be happy to send a couple of test shells.
     
  4. Jake Windemere

    Jake Windemere Senior Refuge Member

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    Not the case. Felt recoil is absolutely no way to estimate peak chamber pressure. If you don't believe this look in any shotshell reloading manual and you will see light payloads with high peak chamber pressures and heavy payloads with low peak chamber pressures. And you will also see the exact opposite. What you won't see is any load that exceeds SAAMI specifications for peak chamber pressure.

    Light payloads give less felt recoil than heavy payloads, with all of the other variables kept constant.

    Felt recoil is the result of payload and velocity against the mass of the gun - regardless of the peak chamber pressure.

    In your tungsten spheres load you haven't changed the weight of the payload and likely haven't changed the muzzle velocity significantly, so the felt recoil will be comparable to the factory lead load.

    What you have almost undoubtedly done is run the first part of the pressure curve off the charts.

    I'd volunteer the pressure gun but I don't own it. Plus the barrels I use are not designed for proof loads, they are standard Remington Model 870 barrels. I would be concerned that one of my barrels might come apart endangering life or limb.
     
  5. Jake Windemere

    Jake Windemere Senior Refuge Member

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    Have you ever visited the Tungsten Super Shot web site? They sell reloading kits and they also sell "tungsten super sinker". Tungsten Super Sinker is sold as fishing weight material, not waterfowl shot.

    https://www.tungstensupershot.com/pages/product.asp?cat=6&code=TSS_SINK

    Why is that? I am not sure, but I would hazard a guess that without carefully tested loads from a reputable reloading manual the folks at Tungsten Super Shot don't want to be responsible for "fly by the seat of your pants" hand loads constructed with their "super sinkers".

    When you blow up your gun and lose an eye or a thumb their attorneys can argue that you put fishing weights in your shotshell.

    Have you ever visited the Tungsten Spheres web site? I cannot find the word "duck", "waterfowl", "goose", "turkey", "shotgun" anywhere.

    http://www.tungsten-spheres.com/index.html

    Why is that? Same as above.
     
  6. stuwest

    stuwest Elite Refuge Member

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    You are right.

    The reason there is nothing about retail use of their product is that they market to military production and don't know too much about civilian usage.

    I'm happy they are selling 15G and 17G at reasonable market prices.
     
  7. Bull-sprig

    Bull-sprig Elite Refuge Member

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    Not how I seem to remember it from 2 years ago.
     
  8. skiebuster

    skiebuster Elite Refuge Member

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    odd, those pellets aint made to be pressed on fishing line. Nor are there holes in them for a line to go through them. Hmmm, could that be proved in court of law ?

    They just are afraid to sell something because of people who are sue happy these days.

    Biggest thing is spending the time to really get the loads perfected so that they wont be overpressured and blow up. If someone overloads or does the wrong thing from a handload then they couldnt be liable.

    Since they are selling TS to the military, then thats their bread n butter and hopefully one day they will offer commercially loaded turkey shells.
     
  9. Mojo

    Mojo Senior Refuge Member

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    The initial reason for TSS to sell the shot as "ballast material" is because tungsten is such a hard material that it will scar a gun barrel if it comes in contact. Most people who are interested in the using the very best ammunition are reloaders. Kyle, the owner of TSS, only offered the shot as a kit with all components included when he started. If a reloader wanted to develop their own load, they still had to buy the whole kit and throw away the components they didn't use. The loads from TSS were good at preventing shot from coming in contact with a barrel - but it's still possible - there is a disclaimer on the site. Kyle made his product available to way more shooters as "ballast material" than as "my recipe or nothing" kits. It is called ballast material so that if you damage your barrel, it's because you took matters into your own hands.
    I would not choose to use lead load recipes as a starting point to load TSS, because barrel protection is not a priority in lead shot loads. I don't have any issue with using Hevi shot recipes for loading TSS, and adding additional mylar in the shotcup will help to take up the space that the smaller pellets will leave, and offer maximum barrel protection too. I believe TSS has been available for 3 years now, and I haven't heard of a single report of loss of life or limb.
     
  10. Jake Windemere

    Jake Windemere Senior Refuge Member

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    I never said that TSS would endanger life or limb. I said that the load that Stu was advocating likely exceeds SAAMI specifications, which is a hazard to life and limb. Danger is not limited to TSS, you can blow up a shotgun with lead, steel, tungsten, or bismuth if you mix the wrong components.

    As for fishing weights, that is how I read "super sinker". Can you think of another "sinker" that isn't a fishing weight? If so, maybe that's what they are referring to.

    Hey all of you ballistic geniuses out there who are quick to scoff at my warning feel free to pack as much TSS into a shell as you can get in there with as much gunpowder that you can get behind it. Fire away. Maybe you'll get that gobbler. Maybe you'll get a cool glass eye that matches the real one.

    For the rest of you. If it is not published in a manual by someone who has tested the ammunition extensively in a pressure barrel then don't try it.
     

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