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U.S. Hunters in Canada

Discussion in 'Canadian Hunters Forum' started by Moe Curls, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. drycreekvalley

    drycreekvalley Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    King County WA
    The non-Canadian guide ban stinks of protectionism. Reputable guides from any nation should be able to guide in Canada and in the states. My experience in Alberta with non-Canadian guided hunts has been fantastic. When I see people trying to fix problems by excluding someone based on where they live I immediately smell a rat.

    Non-Canadian outfits hire locals, purchase tons of fuel, book multiple rooms, pay taxes, purchase shells, buy licenses, consume food and drink and on and on. No one in the small towns I have visited wants an outfit to leave because of their nationality. The only ones who want that are Canadian outfitters.

    If you want to fix illegal guiding, do it. All the fish cops have to do is get in their trucks and drive around. It is a problem and it is not hard to spot.

    However, it has nothing to do with legitimate guiding by non-Canadians.

    And limiting the length of time a non-Canadian can hunt in Canada is a stupid idea. It is like telling all of your kids they are grounded because one of them did something wrong. At least try to stop illegal guiding via enforcement before doing something that keeps me from making an early and late season trip to Alberta.
     
  2. Chris Benson

    Chris Benson Elite Refuge Member

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    Location:
    Manitoba
    Uhhh, no. Lets turn this around. How would you feel as a local guide who has grown up in a small town when another person from another country moves in a takes your bussiness away? After it's all said and done, it's our country our rules. It's not up to anyone but who lives here what laws and rules we have.


    Have read the entire thread? We have already gone over this. It's just not that simple.
     
  3. drycreekvalley

    drycreekvalley Elite Refuge Member

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    Joined:
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    Location:
    King County WA
    Quote: Uhhh, no. Lets turn this around. How would you feel as a local guide who has grown up in a small town when another person from another country moves in a takes your business away?

    If it were me I would ask myself what am I doing wrong. I have the inside track, I know the area, I know the farmers, I should be the one everyone is coming to. Why isn't that happening? Probably because I am not the best.

    Frankly, I do not want to do business with second best.

    Quote: After it's all said and done, it's our country our rules. It's not up to anyone but who lives here what laws and rules we have.

    You are right. However, I see special interest groups organizing down here all the time and creating more laws and restrictions without bothering to ask why the ones we have are not being enforced.

    I think if you involved more than just the Fish and Game and Canadian Guide organizations you may get a better representation of how people feel.

    I suspect that local merchants would not vote for restricted licensing of non-resident hunters. What possible way could they benefit from that? How can Canada possibly benefit from restricting the number of days I can hunt? Most people are law abiding guides and hunters and by limiting me to 6 days a season everyone loses.

    Quote: Have read the entire thread? We have already gone over this. It's just not that simple.

    I did over simplifiy. Mostly because as I said above, I constantly see more restrictions and laws enacted when all that need be done is enforce the ones already in place. Is there a reason these people cannot be caught? Is the 6 day rule the only way? Likely not, and I think it will do more harm than good.

    Please take note that I am a person who loves coming to Canada, paying a knowledgeable guide, leaving quite a bit of money behind and enjoying your country. I hope you have the same experience in my country.

    I do not want to hunt with second best. It is a business and business is tough. I say make your business shine brighter than all the others and you will not care what or who is in the same business with you.

    It still smells like protectionism to me.
     
  4. Fanatic

    Fanatic Elite Refuge Member

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    Dec 6, 2001
    Location:
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    I will agree with that... I have said it many times before and will continue to say.... its a shame but way to many local guys here have no right in my opinion to be a professional goose outfitter...

    Although we do have the odd excellent one..... There is a local Alberta outfitter that sponsors this site and I'd give him my money in a heartbeat to guide me.... because he is a local but yes a good top of the line business, not a shabby operation, he deserves the business before XXX's goose extravaganza based out of LA, CA...:)
     
  5. SHOTGUN

    SHOTGUN Senior Refuge Member

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    Mar 27, 2000
    Location:
    CALGARY ALBERTA CANADA
    The problem the local guy has especially with the Ca. market is the freelance illegal guide has no problem going to all the sports shows and dropping off some leaflets.

    The guy from alberta or saskatchewan now has to generate the money to fly down to these shows, and now we are talking big expense for advertising only to have some illegal come up here for 3 or 4 weeks out of the year and basically steal from the local economy because believe me they don't buy their shells here ever.

    And we have been over this tooooooooo long. what you as a freelance hunter spend on fuel meals lodging and booze is nothing. Seems like a lot to you I know, but overall it is not even a drop in the bucket.

    So to hopefully end this thread I will repeat again. come on up nd freelance if you want you are indeed welcome. But if you decide you want to hunt with a guide then please please please use a local resident. He knows the area and can give you your best hunt.

    SHOTGUN
     
  6. Chris Benson

    Chris Benson Elite Refuge Member

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    Location:
    Manitoba
    drycreekvalley,

    Yes, there are some second best guides around, just like everywhere. You have to do your research and find one that has good reveiws from past clients. I can rattle off 1/2 dozen guides from Manitoba that are top notch guides.

    O.k maybe you didn't know what I was refering to. The Canadian provinces are huge!! We simply do not have enough DNR officers to cover each and every area of the province effectly. In some areas a pair of officers are patroling an area that covers a couple hundred square miles. That's a lot of land that those guys have to patrol and catch poachers or illegal guides. Also it's not like the states where everything just off the road. We have alot of wilderness up here, not exactly easy just to "drive around" and catch people.

    Now what we can do is hire more DNR officers to be more of an effective presense, but that would also mean we have to raise the cost of licenses a couple hundred dollars to cover the cost. Which would make matters worse for the non-res.
     
  7. B325

    B325 Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
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    Oct 18, 2002
    Location:
    Quebec
    Chris Benson, look closely:
    ...his call letters tells it all (Drycreekvalley).

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you want to fix illegal guiding, do it. All the fish cops have to do is get in their trucks and drive around. It is a problem and it is not hard to spot.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Imagine the number of Game wardens Calif must have with a population of >30 million & only 156K sq mi (with no fresh water or public land to hunt on).

    How can you expect him to visualize:
    Qc - Pop: 7 mil & 594K sq mi.
    Ont - Pop: 10.5 mil & 412K sq mi.
    Sask - Pop: 1 mil & 251K sq mi.
    Man -Pop: 1 mil & 251K sq mi.
    To put in into perspective, imagine the entire Canadian population (28 mil) living in Newfoundland/Lab (156K sq mi).
    Oh yes, Canada has >20% of the world's fresh water supply.
     
  8. SeniorCoot

    SeniorCoot Elite Refuge Member

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    Aug 13, 2001
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Guys--Now I ain't stirring the pot- BUT i can see th eproblem of size- Alaska where i lived for 25yrs is in line with your Provinces at 375K Sq Mi and 250K folks when i moved there and about 600,000 now- and yest it seemed like those DNR and feds were always popping up- usually in Duck camp they landed their Super Cub on our hunting pond about 7am opening day --just right to screw up the early days hunt.
    granted i certainly didn't see them as much as I see those guys in Wi. sheriff's, feds, state Dnr etc etc. and wis is small- 1/10th of Ak with 10x's the pop.
    And remember -most of California belongs in Mass or NY with the other Yahoo liberals.
    As for illegal guides working shows- i only go to 3 or 4 each year and haven't seen any that didn't have a booth giving out literature- in Mpls -Yes there are some Like John Robidieu-tetsa River- and darrel Wise who live in USA in Winter but i had assumed they were licensed by Provincial Gov't. Am i wrong? Wise has been doing his thing for 18 yrs.
     
  9. seal

    seal Elite Refuge Member

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    Location:
    meridian,id
    You Canadians may as well save your breath. After 5 pages and several years of dealing with Americans you should know that we know everything and we know what is best for every country in the world.:rolleyes: For the life of me I cant understand why you wouldnt take an Americans recommendations on hunting...........after all....look at the outstanding job we have done managing our own hunting.:rolleyes:
    I will go against the grain of other American hunters and dont much care what they think. If they want to continue freelance hunting.....fine....but I say put a cap on all alien hunters. Make "x" amount of alien licenses available to outfitters and "x" amount available to freelancers. Alaska and Canada are about all we have left of the "old days". I get multiple calls and PM's everyday from guys that are going to Canada for the first time this coming season. Do we really want to lose the "last frontiers" by having hordes of Americans crossing the border. It may not be bad yet.....but with the way hunting is in the states...........its going to get bad in the future. Canada is too easy for Americans to access. Take some lessons from Arkansas and Louisiana......nip the problem in the bud before it gets unmanageable. North Dakota is in the same boat as Canada IMO. Dont believe me........I have seen Idaho go from being Saskatchewan like 20 years ago to California like now:(
     
  10. drycreekvalley

    drycreekvalley Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
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    Joined:
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    Location:
    King County WA
    Well this has degraded so I think I will move on after this post.

    My last thoughts on this are as follows:

    Re: Illegal guiding

    Illegal guiding is without question a problem in the provinces. Come up with a solution that does not punish the law abiding visiting hunter or any law abiding hunter for that matter. Limiting the number of days to 6 is harmful. You can come up with something that makes more sense. Even a different approach to limited licensing is better than 6 days a season and you are done.

    Enforcement works. All you have to do is make the punishment fit the crime. Once word gets around that people are sitting in jail with all their equipment forfeit, unable to ever hunt or visit Canada again, people will wise up. You do not have to catch all of them.

    Also, feel free to increase license fees to cover enforcement. I am all for it.

    Re: Non-Canadian Guides legal guiding

    Nothing anyone has said here makes me believe this is a problem. Make sure you continue to gather the same benefits from all guiding operations such as taxes and a boost to the local economy. And leave it alone. Your business will flourish if you are a good businessman and you focus on your customers. I want to hunt with the best regardless of where they live when they are not guiding. Again, I do not want second best just because he is local.

    Re: My current address

    You are free to ignore my thoughts as I am yours. However, doing so based on the fact that I currently live in CA is obviously ignorant. I wouldn't be here on this forum if I did not care to preserve the resources we both enjoy. Just as I work to improve and preserve the resources close to my home.

    Granted, I focus more on local resources because of my almost daily connection with them. That does not mean I do not care about what happens up north, out east and down south. I want to hunt with my grandkids. In fact, I want them to experience better hunting than I have and that has been pretty damn good.

    So, poke fun or ignore me because of where I live. You of course no nothing of my background and you very well could be living next door to my grandparents and the farm I grew up on. Or not.

    Either way you have important decisions to make. Don't make them out of selfishness or short sightedness. Think of the future. You have plenty of bad examples out there to learn from.

    p.s. we just wrapped up a fantastic waterfowl season down here. We had a great time. Hopefully, that will last forever and only get better.
     

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