When brave and competent leadership took scared and exhausted men and saved the Union.

Discussion in 'Political Action Forum' started by Bear, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. stevena198301

    stevena198301 Elite Refuge Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,046
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Location:
    HSV, Alabama
    I believe you are correct. A lot of that supposedly happened after the war, all in the name of politics. It was in a show I recently watched, but I can't remember the name of it.

    I believe the 1SG that Sam Elliot portrayed was quoted saying something of that effect, wasn't he?
     
  2. The_Duck_Master

    The_Duck_Master Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    4,682
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Location:
    Salem, Oregon
    Probably preferred guys who didn't get captured or killed.
     
    hobbydog likes this.
  3. ALMODUX

    ALMODUX Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    17,393
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    Probably preferred guys who didn’t forsake their command for personal desires....or maybe he preferred commanders that didn’t impulsively dismiss equipment, intelligence, and planning that could ensure success and save lives.

    There were a dozen or more simple mistakes that Custer made, that all added up, but his arrogance may have been the root of most of them.

    It’s mostly second guessing, but you get that when your mistakes get lots of others killed. Just imagine if he’d actually listened, actually kept his formations intact, and actually kept his gunnery/supply trains close? Wouldn’t have been nearly as good for the Indians, I’d imagine, and Custer may have ended up in politics.
     
  4. The_Duck_Master

    The_Duck_Master Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    4,682
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Location:
    Salem, Oregon
    Probably had a sense of humor.
     
  5. Bear

    Bear Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    30,090
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Location:
    God Bless Texas!!!
    I read a discussion on this several years ago and the accepted thought was the Plains Indians wouldn't stand and fight and needed to be run to ground. He got caught in that miscalculation.

    And yes...he apparently was trying to recover from a military career gone bad and was looking for that big political score.
     
  6. tubshooter

    tubshooter Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    1,908
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    Yes, probably true. It's just a shame in my opinion the writers thought it was a line worth including.
     
  7. stevena198301

    stevena198301 Elite Refuge Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,046
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Location:
    HSV, Alabama
    I've never really thought it offensive. That whole mess was politically motivated (drummed up anger at the "savages" in DC), and Custer was the man with enough fire to get it done. As others have said, it was to be his way back into the spotlight, and into politics. He just forgot he had to win first.
     
  8. rhpierce

    rhpierce Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    2,650
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Location:
    Arkansas
    In doing a little reading last night, he was a bona fide war hero...his actions all the way to Appomattox and subsequent appointment to Major General of volunteers speaks well...and then in 1866 he's back to Lt. Colonel...and is court martialed over his visit to his wife...not really sure on the whys and wherefores of that - more reading...

    Seems like they had more Generals than commands after the Civil War, and it was go down in rank or go home...

    I'm not sure if he was truly politically motivated, or his duty and honor and aggressive nature just ran him into a wall...he went with conventional wisdom on Native tactics and warfare against them and it bit him squarely...

    more later...
     
  9. Bear

    Bear Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    30,090
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Location:
    God Bless Texas!!!
    Rumor is his appointment to Brigadier General was a brevet appointment ad actually unintentional. The powers that were in place at the time didn't want to admit their mistake so they let it ride.

    Yes...the conventional wisdom at the time was the American Plains Indians would not stand and fight. The reason he left the Gatling guns was they were considered artillery at the time and he thought they would slow him down in what he thought was going to be a continual pursuit.

    Custer's wife was supposed to be the child of a close friend of General Sherman and she went to Sherman to implore Sherman give Custer a command. I believe Custer was actually under house arrest at the time.

    I may be incorrect in some of the Gen. Sherman info but I believe it's correct.
     
  10. rhpierce

    rhpierce Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    2,650
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Bear, that makes sense on the Gatling guns, particularly if he figured on the capture of the women and children as a way to force a quick surrender. I know there has been debate over whether or not they crossed the river, but I think the one forensic study determined they did and were either repulsed by what they thought was a larger force, or had to give up based on the distance the women and children were from the camp already and the battle starting to coalesce on their flank and rear...

    Either way, some gross errors/arrogance that got him and many others dead. Amazing how the things that marked his success in the Civil War led to his death at the Little Bighorn; makes you wonder how close he came to the same errors in the years prior but avoided paying the price. That also marked the high point for the Native Americans...

    Norman Maclean, the writer of "A River Runs Through It", was a big Custer researcher and had the makings of a huge book on the Little Bighorn battle and the events prior, but gave it up after quite a while. I have a book of some of his other writings, and I think it includes some of his Custer research, but he was writing before there was good forensic, scientific data available, and there were a lot of hearsay accounts, etc. He had to sift through a lot of information that was often conflicting...

    Maybe too introspective today, but I wonder what would've happened had the US managed to keep even a few of the treaties intact. Maybe the wars were inevitable as the US was growing - manifest destiny and Pax Americana - and the two cultures were too radically different...one focused on expansion, riches, materialism and the other decidedly not.
     
    hobbydog and Bear like this.

Share This Page