You draft age kids might learn this Russian phrase.

Discussion in 'World News / Current Events Forum' started by Bear, Mar 20, 2014.

  1. Bear

    Bear Elite Refuge Member

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    Yes...and ironically Russia is now using this same agreement to justify its invasion of the Crimea because its claiming the United States had interfered in the internal affairs of the Ukraine by supporting the overthrow of their Ukrainian pro-Russian puppet president. I used the term treaty incorrectly as many of the references I researched this with called the "agreement" a treaty. Apparently this "treaty"..."agreement" was so poorly written and open for interpretation that both parties are using it for an excuse "to" and "to not" use it for action. That action is apparently decided on however those involved want to interpret it. Actually, the argument is moot to its interpretation because Russia did annex the Crimea and nobody is going to do anything about it. This agreement is however currently being kicked around the World opposing signatories and talking head media politicos as justification for their own whatever position.
     
  2. duckmann

    duckmann Elite Refuge Member

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    He meant that PUTIN would have more leeway!!!
     
  3. Mallard Machete

    Mallard Machete Elite Refuge Member

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    It doesn't look good, but they did vote for it.

    It would take a lot more than that for Americans to be willing to go fight to the death.

    We are not the world's police force. These things cost money, that we would need to borrow from the Chinese.
     
  4. sstrykker

    sstrykker Banned

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    The pick of Biden guaranteed that wouldn't happen.:l
     
  5. sstrykker

    sstrykker Banned

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    Honestly its probably better in the long run that Ukraine is rid of Crimea and its Russian citizens. Additionally the Ukrainians wont have to put up with the Muslim Tartars that have trickled back into the region after Stalin expelled them post WWII. That's a future problem that Putin will have to deal with internally.

    To counter Putin though Id start giving incentives to Ukrainian citizens that if they elect moderate governments that we will give them temporary status in NATO with full membership coming after a period of years if they remain stable.
     
  6. sstrykker

    sstrykker Banned

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    Just wait till the Hispanic majority in the SW votes to leave the US and rejoin Mexico.:eek:
     
  7. KENNEDY63

    KENNEDY63 Elite Refuge Member

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    Pretty simple stuff to anyone paying attention to the world stage....

    The American isolationists are winning for now.....to the detriment of us all.

    Here's a piece on the true costs of isolationism that come from the much ballyhooe'd "fatigue" of the American public.....this "fatigue" also wrought the second world war, the Holocaust, ethnic cleansing, and a great many other things that people will wring their hands about after the fact.

    Henninger: American Fatigue Syndrome

    If the U.S. doesn't lead, the strongmen win. For them it's easier. By Daniel Henninger

    March 19, 2014 7:16 p.m. ET

    By the time the second World Trade Center tower collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001, the whole world was watching it. We may assume that Vladimir Putin was watching. Mr. Putin, a quick calculator of political realities, would see that someone was going to get hit for this, and hit hard.

    He was right of course. The Bush presidency became a war presidency that day, and it pounded and pursued the Islamic fundamentalists of al Qaeda without let-up or apology.

    During that time, it was reported that Vladimir Putin, a former KGB officer in East Germany, deeply regretted the fall of the Soviet Union's empire and despised the Americans who caused it to fall. But no one cared what Mr. Putin thought then. Russia's power was a sliver of its former size. Besides, Mr. Putin's hurt was salved with the limitless personal wealth that flowed from doing business with the West. Conventional wisdom clicked in easily: Capitalism's surplus was enough to sate any rational autocrat.

    In 2008, the American people elected a new president, and Vladimir Putin, a patient feline, would have noticed that President Obama in his speeches was saying that American power would be used "in concert" with other nations and institutions, such as the United Nations. What would have made Mr. Putin's eye jump was the decision by George Bush's successor not just to leave Iraq but without leaving a residual U.S. military presence to help the new government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

    Sometime in the first Obama term, opinion polls began to report that the American people were experiencing what media shorthand came to call "fatigue" with the affairs of the world. The U.S. should "mind its own business." The America-is-fatigued polling fit with Mr. Obama's stated goal to lead from behind. A close observer of American politics also could notice that Republican politicians, the presumptive heirs of Reagan, began to recalibrate their worldview inward to accommodate the "fatigue" in the opinion polls.

    We are of course discussing Vladimir Putin's path to the forced annexation of Crimea. And possibly in time a move on the independence of Ukraine, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Kazakhstan or Moldova. This narrative has one more point of Putin demarcation: Syria.

    Last September, every foreign chancery in the world concluded that the United States would bomb Bashar Assad's airfields with Tomahawk missiles in reprisal for killing nearly 1,500 Syrians with chemical weapons, including sarin gas. Vladimir Putin placed a bet. He suggested to the American president that in lieu of the U.S. bombing Assad's airfields, their two nations, in concert, could remove all of Syria's chemical weapons. Mr. Obama accepted and stood down from bombing Assad. Six months later Vladimir Putin invaded and annexed Crimea.

    This moment is not about Barack Obama. By now we know about him. This is about Vladimir Putin and the self-delusions of Western nations and their famous "fatigue." Vladimir Putin is teaching the West and especially the United States that fatigue is not an option.

    Sometimes world affairs go off the grid. Diplomats may give reasons why it is not in the interests of Mr. Putin or Russia to take this course. Vice President Biden told the Poles in Warsaw Monday that Mr. Putin's seizure of Crimea was "flawed logic." It is difficult for men embedded in a world of rational affairs to come to grips with Mr. Putin's point of view: He doesn't care what they think.

    The solitary but thrilling world of Vladimir Putin's mind is the one inhabited by the Assads, Saddams, bin Ladens, Kims, Gadhafis and Khomeinis of the world, and when it really runs out of control, or is allowed to, by a Stalin, Hitler, or Mao. Whether one man's grandiosity will burst across borders is not about normal logic. It is about personal power and forcing the obeisance of other nations.

    Vladimir Putin re-proves that sometimes a bad person gains control of the instruments of national power. Their populations do nothing or can't, because they are disarmed by thugs with overwhelming firepower. Or, as on Russian TV now, they are marinated in anti-U.S. propaganda. Today even second-rate megalomaniacs gain access to high-tech weaponry, including missiles and nuclear bombs.

    Running alongside these old realities is a new phenomenon, surely noticed by Mr. Putin: The nations of the civilized world have decided their most pressing concern is income inequality. Barack Obama says so, as does the International Monetary Fund. Western Europe amid the Ukraine crisis is a case study of nations redistributing themselves and perhaps NATO into impotence.

    Because no modern Democrat can be credible on this, some Republican presidential candidate will have to explain the high price of America's fatigue. Fatigue will allow global disorder to displace 60 years of democratic order. If the U.S. doesn't lead, the strongmen win because for them it's easier. They don't lead people; they coerce them. Ask the millions free for now in the old countries of the Iron Curtain.

    Write to henninger@wsj.com
     
  8. KENNEDY63

    KENNEDY63 Elite Refuge Member

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    Well, and to draw parallels to Crimea - the vote is conducted under the ever watchful eyes of the Mexican government - and only the Mexican government.
     
  9. sstrykker

    sstrykker Banned

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    Give the Dems two more POTUS terms and they may cede that authority.
     
  10. Bear

    Bear Elite Refuge Member

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    KENNEDY63...But we have peace in our time. :cool:

    What you have said in your referenced article is the difference between experienced men. Obama came to the presidency with no practical government "management" or government work experience on the grunt level. He was a Chicago community advocate and a college professor. Both short term and no real-world focus. He came with a very limited focus domestic agenda. Putin, however, has an extensive resume of both management and world experience. Putin's agenda is simply to progress the Russian culture and economy into a new and stronger prosperity and anyone that stands in the way of that will be crushed. Either domestically or regionally. Obama's idea of correcting the past is to remedy perceived but not necessarily real anymore social agendas. Putin's recollection of the past is having watched almost every facet of the society he grew up in from order...to economy...to military and Russian World status as a super power decline. Now who else in that region saw this happen to their country just a quick two generations ago and lashed out in the region and sucked the World into a World War? That person used the exact same excuses Putin is using now but Putin doesn't have but one front to worry about and is worlds ahead of military...political...intellect and capacity than Hitler ever dreamed of. Putin has almost 100% backing of his people...his government and his economic power brokers and he's facing a flaccid opposition. Will he slow down...temporarily as he fades the heat of the Crimean grab. Then he'll use that oil power grab and use it to strangle Europe both economically and culturally while the West does nothing because they can do nothing. Putin is marching to the Adriatic and if anyone stands in his way...Muslims...social agenda advocates like gays...and the religious orders; dissenters...the former Warsaw pact countries or World opinion they will be crushed in typical Russian fashion. We have a temporary "Peace in our time." until this coming January or January two years from now. Putin couldn't care less about NATO...he can buy and intimidate the regions NATO allies. Your referenced article mentions war exhaustion by the Americans and Western Europe. Britain and France were still war exhausted after WW1 and because of that watched Hitler run helter skelter over Europe until Poland and even then Britain essentially had to go it alone for a couple of years while the Americans stayed isolationist. History's stage has not changed...only the names of the protagonists have. Same playhouse.
     

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