You will do greater things than Jesus did...

Discussion in 'Christian Forum' started by RefugeHunter, May 14, 2007.

  1. onionhead

    onionhead Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

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    John 14: 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

    12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

    The radio man needs to read his Bible just a little bit. The Lord Himself described the "works" He was referring to when He said "believe me for the very works' sake". They were the same "works" He instructed the disciples of John to tell John about, the things they saw Christ Jesus do.

    Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. Luke 7:22

    .....the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached .....

    Why "speculate", Jesus plainly meant what He said.
     
  2. wingmastr23

    wingmastr23 Elite Refuge Member

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    Yea.....But it clearly wasn't a gift for EVERYONE until Acts 2......BIG DIFFERENCE!!

    Joel 2:
    27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
    28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
    29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

    Acts 2:
    16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
    17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
    18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
     
  3. ARKANSAS

    ARKANSAS Elite Refuge Member

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    I don't listen to Kroll as much as I'd like to, but did he then talk about Jesus actually talking about leaving the herd just to go find one sheep?

    Is bringing millions to Christ "greater" than bringing one?

    Hey even I need a bible lesson every now and then. :yes
     
  4. onionhead

    onionhead Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

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    Everyone did not have the "gift" then, just as everyone doesn't have the "gift" now - hard to see a difference in that.

    Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

    They were resisting Him before Pentecost, so says the book of Acts, and I'm sure you'll agree that He is still being resisted, even denied today. The verse is very clear, "just like your fathers" certainly indicates pre-Pentecost. Before Pentecost, the scriptures say, that the Holy Ghost was at work in mens hearts, same as today.

    1 Samuel 11 ...... the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them. You have seen this happen and more. Just like the Spirit fell on Saul, you have seen the Spirit fall on people and those that it falls on exhibit gifts - just like Saul did when the Spirit fell on him and, and as the scriptures say "he prophesied".

    Is there a difference Wing ?? I can't see it.
     
  5. Quack Attack

    Quack Attack Elite Refuge Member

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    You guys are a tactfully hateful bunch.
    Is this common among "the brethren"?
     
  6. ARKANSAS

    ARKANSAS Elite Refuge Member

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    Well aren't we sensitive today.:h
     
  7. TPM

    TPM Elite Refuge Member

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    Every person is important and I don't think that is what he was getting at. However, it is a good work to see many saved and the Apostles saw far more converts after the Lord returned to Heaven. He was suggesting that the thousands saved on the day of Pentecost was an example of "greater things."
     
  8. Dr.Hidegood

    Dr.Hidegood Elite Refuge Member

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    Right on!! Because ,think about it ......Jesus rose people the dead , walked on water,controlled the weather ,cast out devils,opened blind eyes & in this scripture he is telling His disciples "you will do greater works than these because I am going to my father"......how much "greater" can you get in the natural world than these works?
    What Jesus did when He went to the Father(as Onion has already explained)is establish the New Covenanant . Now men can have Jesus inside & be born again. The "New Birth "is the "greater work" Jesus was talking about.... an eternal spiritual regeneration of the human spirit & this work was & is brought about by preaching the Gospel .
    What do y'all think? This is how I see it.
     
  9. wingmastr23

    wingmastr23 Elite Refuge Member

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    Yes there is a difference. The difference is that God chose to make his Spirit available to ALL men. ("to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.") Prior to that, There were select individuals he bestowed that honor....(Some you mentioned earlier.)

    Acts 7 is Stephen speaking to unbelievers. (paraphrasing) He is speaking of how their fathers rejected the prophets of old that were "selectedly" filled with the Spirit, or their prophesies which were dirrived from the Spirit. Their fathers rejected what the prophets said.... And now even to date, they killed the "Just One" that was filled with the Spirit.

    This point of scripture holds no bearing on the idea that the "fathers" had the opportunity to be "filled" and chose not to.

    As far as 1 Samuel 11.....This again shows that prior to the book of Acts that it was NOT for ALL......but for some. (Kind of like the fact that I have seen someone throw a 95mph fastball, but I can't do it!!! I have seen it...I know it CAN happen....it is a gift....but it wasn't made available to me no matter how much I practiced!!!)

    Again, if the Spirit was being poured out prior to Acts, then Joel's prophecy would have been null and void.....and Peter...being "in the know" with Jesus, would not have said it again on the Day of Pentecost.

    Oh...and BTW....contrary to Mr. Quack Attack, I don't think you were being "tactfully hateful".....:no (Not sure who really is on this thread....is Joe Dirt around??? :D )
     
  10. RefugeHunter

    RefugeHunter Elite Refuge Member

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    :l or :cry
     

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