Another DB outfitter?

[Bullet21XD]

They could easily flood it with the tears of thine resident hunter.

 

[kansascutter]

They could easily flood it with the tears of thine resident hunter.

Or the p*ss of NR army. Throw that of the KDWP and the Commish in also though the latter just seems to keep doing it straight into the wind…..

 

[JP]

At the risk of rehashing a topic that has been beaten to death more than the issues on the Kansas Forum

First…..show the shift to Missouri which has the two major River systems flowing thru the state…..I tried to find the OWDC report you mentioned and you tried to find it as well…..we both came up with zip

Next,people plant and grow all sorts of crops and harvest them. The law considers corn grown and flooded as legal…ie normal
As legal as planting Japanese millet and flooding it
In fact, you can harvest corn after it has had water in the field…..truly flooded corn, like when the Mississippi is 25 feet above flood level isn’t useable……of course no other crop is either.

BTW millet is not classified as an aquatic plant but as a grass that tolerates water as long as the seed heads stay dry
In fact, it was developed by the Japanese to produce food where rice could not be cultivated
I recall Oklahoma aerial seeding mudflats with millet and then the COE raised the water levels above the seed heads and killing the millet…typical OWDC and COE not being on the same page….so much for an aquatic plant

A discussion of habitat change due to levy and drainage is too long for what is already a too long post LOL

Additional differences
A bushel of millet weighs 50 lbs…bushel of corn weighs 70 lbs
Unharvested Millet produces 5,245 duck use days of food per acre
Unharvested Corn produces 28,820 duck use days
Unharvested Rice produces 24,025 duck use days

One of reasons Missouri’s WMAs seem to do well, besides location, is Dr Mickey Heitmeyer’s involvement in setting it up……just sayin

ok…..off soap box

please return to your normally scheduled programming

1

At the risk of rehashing a topic that has been beaten to death more than the issues on the Kansas Forum

First…..show the shift to Missouri which has the two major River systems flowing thru the state…..I tried to find the OWDC report you mentioned and you tried to find it as well…..we both came up with zip

Next,people plant and grow all sorts of crops and harvest them. The law considers corn grown and flooded as legal…ie normal
As legal as planting Japanese millet and flooding it
In fact, you can harvest corn after it has had water in the field…..truly flooded corn, like when the Mississippi is 25 feet above flood level isn’t useable……of course no other crop is either.

BTW millet is not classified as an aquatic plant but as a grass that tolerates water as long as the seed heads stay dry
In fact, it was developed by the Japanese to produce food where rice could not be cultivated
I recall Oklahoma aerial seeding mudflats with millet and then the COE raised the water levels above the seed heads and killing the millet…typical OWDC and COE not being on the same page….so much for an aquatic plant

A discussion of habitat change due to levy and drainage is too long for what is already a too long post LOL

Additional differences
A bushel of millet weighs 50 lbs…bushel of corn weighs 70 lbs
Unharvested Millet produces 5,245 duck use days of food per acre
Unharvested Corn produces 28,820 duck use days
Unharvested Rice produces 24,025 duck use days

One of reasons Missouri’s WMAs seem to do well, besides location, is Dr Mickey Heitmeyer’s involvement in setting it up……just sayin

ok…..off soap box

please return to your normally scheduled programming

Will make search for the report. It's filed away somewhere.

Yes, Japanese millet is a moist soil plant and tolerates flooding as long as it isn't over topped.

However, building a levee around a cornfield and artificially flooding the standing crop is not a normal agricultural practice. It is a political construct created by economic forces to corral birds onto concentrated areas. To deny that fact is to engage in a level of duplicity.

Natural flooding of agricultural crops is also not a normal agricultural practice. It is a product of weather systems that man has no control. As such, it becomes a bounty courtesy of the duck gods but not an artificial contrivance created in a backroom.

 

[JP]

This has been suggested time and time again.
Just where are these additional lands the KDWP is supposed to acquire? Who is going to sell their 40 acres of decent wetlands to the State when they can make $5000 a year leasing it to some outfitter? ...these 40 acres that will comfortably hold a maximum of 3 or 4 parties of hunters?
The NR hunters from Louisiana alone would fill up every additional plot of ground the state could possibly buy for the next 10 years.
Do you think Kansas is full of landowners just begging for someone to buy their duck property??? Ha! There are damn few acres of privately-held wetlands in this state, and 99% of them are in the SE quadrant of the state.

When asked why there isn't a carve out (i.e. sales tax revenues) of public funds for ODWC the consensus was the potential risks outweighed the possible rewards. Being that politicians and nonstakeholders (non hunters, non fishers) would gain a high degree of control over the resource, the potential Faustian Pact was to be avoided.

The problem with waterfowl is too many people want to hunt them.

The nonresident hunter issue is symptomatic of what has transpired in the various flyways. In example, Louisiana's licence plate motto is/was Sportsmen Paradise. The fact they are showing up in droves in the Central Flyway is a compelling fact pattern of just how bad off the quality of waterfowling is in those parts. There's a G/O in north central Oklahoma that has grown the business to the point of building a significant real estate (lodge) structure and going after the larger (interstate) market. At last fall's DU banquet it was conveyed that person from Louisiana purchased 100% of the slots for the season that just ended. The price tag was purportedly in the low seven fogure amount.
Is the waterfowl hunting in Louisiana that bad?

Public waterfowl hunting in Oklahoma is aboutt to go in the toilet with the apparent termination of seasonal blind drawings on four of our reservoirs. Other reservoirs (i.e Kerr, Wister) that do not have seasonal blinds have been overrun by illegal guiding with the majority being nonresident individuals. Enforcement against such behavior has been given a resource by virtue of a state senate bill requiring G/O's to be licensed by the ODWC

Kansas' issues with NR concentration isn't theirs alone as the above comments illustrate. IMO, the sport/industry may be so top-heavy that critical mass is approaching and a collapse is imminent. While somewhat of a poison pill approach, going to the extreme restrictive season approach could weed out a significant percentage of the current bloat.

I'm weighing the current cost of the two leases that are now being supported versus a long trip to Argentina or some other destination.

 

[WuChang]

1

Will make search for the report. It's filed away somewhere.

Yes, Japanese millet is a moist soil plant and tolerates flooding as long as it isn't over topped.

However, building a levee around a cornfield and artificially flooding the standing crop is not a normal agricultural practice. It is a political construct created by economic forces to corral birds onto concentrated areas. To deny that fact is to engage in a level of duplicity.

Natural flooding of agricultural crops is also not a normal agricultural practice. It is a product of weather systems that man has no control. As such, it becomes a bounty courtesy of the duck gods but not an artificial contrivance created in a backroom

At the risk of being duplicitous, I suppose planting 10 acres of millet in a field that has a levee and pumping water into it is not a normal practice as well, but the ‘moist soil’ label somehow makes it ok.

How about that 2 acre pond that seems to be present in every NE Oklahoma ranchette surrounded by whatever crop they can get to grow? Chances are somebody dug it…it might be Green Country but they still needed to dig all those ponds.
How successful is Billy Creek or Overcup Oak bottoms since the state pushed up those mini levees and planted corn then flooded them?
Last I heard, they didn’t do as well as they did before the improvement…..but it has been awhile since I hunted either one…….and at one time I knew Overcup and all that land North of HWY 28 like it was my living room.

I can take you to plenty of places that ducks don’t use even with flooded corn…unfortunately it ain’t “a build it and they will come”……regardless of what you think of the St Charles Bottoms. Of course, they seem to find buyers, when February or March rolls around or August/September when everyone gets hot to trot about the upcoming duck season.

Funny, that places known as being duck hot spots year after year do better than the places that don’t draw ducks even if they look the same, both on the ground and in the air……..and several of them are state areas that you would swear just had to have ducks.

While this isn’t a post and run……I am not inclined to continue what may become a hijacked thread…..and one that has been thrashed and trashed for the 52 duck seasons I have witnessed.

Use the DM feature if still want to politely imply duplicity

 

[WuChang]

When asked why there isn't a carve out (i.e. sales tax revenues) of public funds for ODWC the consensus was the potential risks outweighed the possible rewards. Being that politicians and nonstakeholders (non hunters, non fishers) would gain a high degree of control over the resource, the potential Faustian Pact was to be avoided.

You nailed the problem…….not sure what MDC would do with another urban nature center but I guess they need to burn cash and make tree huggers and little old blue haired ladies in tennis shoes and cheap binocular bird watchers happy.

I'm weighing the current cost of the two leases that are now being supported versus a long trip to Argentina or some other destination.

While I didn’t to get go(family stuff), my Wingman took a group to Argentina and raved about it…….he also shot at more birds in one day(doves) than you would shoot at in years here, The guy was dialed in after that trip and he didn’t miss many ducks when we had our chances………just sayin

 

[Ramblingman]

This is a kinda 'catch-all" thread WuChang. It's ok.

 

[JP]

At the risk of being duplicitous, I suppose planting 10 acres of millet in a field that has a levee and pumping water into it is not a normal practice as well, but the ‘moist soil’ label somehow makes it ok.

How about that 2 acre pond that seems to be present in every NE Oklahoma ranchette surrounded by whatever crop they can get to grow? Chances are somebody dug it…it might be Green Country but they still needed to dig all those ponds.
How successful is Billy Creek or Overcup Oak bottoms since the state pushed up those mini levees and planted corn then flooded them?
Last I heard, they didn’t do as well as they did before the improvement…..but it has been awhile since I hunted either one…….and at one time I knew Overcup and all that land North of HWY 28 like it was my living room.

I can take you to plenty of places that ducks don’t use even with flooded corn…unfortunately it ain’t “a build it and they will come”……regardless of what you think of the St Charles Bottoms. Of course, they seem to find buyers, when February or March rolls around or August/September when everyone gets hot to trot about the upcoming duck season.

Funny, that places known as being duck hot spots year after year do better than the places that don’t draw ducks even if they look the same, both on the ground and in the air……..and several of them are state areas that you would swear just had to have ducks.

While this isn’t a post and run……I am not inclined to continue what may become a hijacked thread…..and one that has been thrashed and trashed for the 52 duck seasons I have witnessed.

Use the DM feature if still want to politely imply duplicity

The WDU's (Billy Crerk, Choteau, et al,) have not been planted with row crops since 1994. It's been moist soil management since then utilizing the natural (smartweed, sprangle top, pigweed, etc.) stuff.

All that can be said for artificially impounded and flooded corn is if it didn't work and work well, the practice would have been discontinued long ago.

The duplicitous reference.....mea culpa.

Hijack over.

 

[Old Critter]

Wu Change is right when he says corn is no magic potion for attracting and killing ducks. So why is it commonly planted on private duck ground? The answer is this. Corn is occasionally deadly, but often better for nocturnal feeding. Other important components include flooded buckbrush sloughs and oxbows, timber, moist soil and sometimes beans and milo.

In any given year the ducks might use all, some or none of the above. And sometimes the ducks will never use a spot regardless of how good the management practices. Over the years I’ve seen it all.

 

[ED Vanderbeck]

When corn is king when temps get below approximately 20 degrees. Température will dictate what the ducks will want to eat. In all about carbs to keep themselves alive when it gets cold. In 30 to 50 degrees moist soil is very good so here once the ducks go to corn they will stay on it until it warms back up